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PC Vs MAC ?

View Poll Results: Do you use a Mac, PC, both or other ?
PC 125 57.87%
Mac 55 25.46%
Both 35 16.20%
Other 1 0.46%
Voters: 216. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 03-20-2005, 01:29 PM
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cardmnal cardmnal is offline
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Sansuci, as a user of both pcs and Macs I can't help but point out a flaw with your argument (no I'm not nit-picking).

The first and most obvious difference between the 2 machines is cost. You argue that it is worth it because Apple offers such a great software package. I will argue that the software package that comes with a Mac, which is much like Windows in as much as you get it if you need/want it or not, is not worth the $1000.00+ extra it cost to get an otherwise equally powerful machine. I can have the entire Adobe Creative Suite for the extra cost of those programs.

The camera comparison was interesting. Ask any photographer and they will tell you the same thing. It's not the cost of the camera it's the person looking through the view finder that determins it's value.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2005, 03:00 PM
gijohn gijohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardmnal
The first and most obvious difference between the 2 machines is cost.
I for one would be very curious to hear how much money some computer users from here have invested in their "box" of choice (forget the monitor - just the CPU).

Over the years I've learned more than a few times that MOST OF THE TIME you get what you pay for.

Last edited by gijohn; 03-22-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-22-2005, 12:35 PM
kedespo kedespo is offline
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lifetime costs

A very good read for anyone that wants to argue Mac vs PC.
<http://macvspc.info/>

I copied the text below from this web site:
<http://www.mackido.com/Myths/cost.html>



Most buyers naively only look at the initial purchase price of a computer and think that is "it". But the cost of a computer is its lifetime costs (not just the initial cost). Lets break down all the different aspects of computer costs individually -


Initial Purchase Price
This is the actual initial cost to buy a computer. In general Macs cost less than name brand PC's and offer much more performance/value at that cost.

You can still buy chop-shop garage clones for PC's for less than Macs (but not by much), but you get much less. Of course you can also bargain shop for Macs and pick up refurbished machines (with warranty's) or discontinued models for less than these chop-shop machines. When you start averaging for value - warranty, reliability, usability, Hardware you get with the Mac (like SCSI, ADB, etc.), software you get with Macs, then even retail Macs come out as the far better deal.

PC users also forget to normalize for the Macs higher performance - for example a PowerPC can dramatically outperform the Pentiums, but people buy based on MHz, and don't realize that the Mac outclasses the Pentium. To buy the equivalent Mac they could buy a much slower MHz machine. (See links on performance).Once costs are normalized, the initial costs of Mac purchases are much less. Some PC users are penny smart but pound foolish - they save a few bucks up front (or think they do), and don't ever realize how much they cost themselves down the line.

For more on the actual Initial Purchase Price (and examples) - Initial Purchase Costs

Installation and expansion
Once you've bought a machine, you get to bring it home and plug it in.

You can still buy chop-shop garage clones for PC's for less than Macs, but you would be getting much less. When you start averaging for value - warranty, reliability, usability, hardware you get with the Mac (like SCSI, ADB, etc.), Software you get with Macs, then usually the Macs come out the much better deal. PC users also forget to normalize for the Macs higher performance - for example a PowerPC can dramatically outperform the Pentiums, but people buy based on MHz, and don't realize that the Mac outclasses the Pentium. To buy the equivalent Mac they could buy a much slower MHz machine. (See links on performance) Once normalized the initial costs of Mac purchases are much less. Some PC users are penny smart but pound foolish - they save a few bucks up front (or think they do), and don't ever realize how much they cost themselves down the line.

For more on Installation issues - Costs to install

Productivity / Ease of Use
Machines real value is not measured in how much it costs, but in how much the user can use it, and how quickly and easily.

Every study ever done has concluded that the Mac was easier to use, and that its users were more productive. Which is the real measure of a computers value.

There was one biased study by MS that concluded that Windows 95 was a little better than a Mac, but it was so blatantly crooked it was funny. IBM, Apple and independent parties jumped on MS's stacking of the study. See [DARKSIDE : FLAWED STUDY] for a laugh.

Many other examinations have been done on how many applications a computer user actually uses on their machines, or what they are using their machines for. Mac users, on average, are using more applications than PC users. Mac users are often using more cutting edge capabilities and pushing the envelope. Mac users are using their machines more. Which all makes perfect sense when you remember that this is the computer that is the easiest to use.

Read my User Interface pages for more information on why the Mac is superior in productivity and ease of use.

For more information on Productivity - [REFERENCE : EASE OF USE].

Maintenance (Support) Costs and expansion
Computer costs not only are the purchase price, but also all of the day to day costs to keep the machine up and working, upgraded and updated.

For more on Installation issues - Costs to maintain

Peripherals
The is an old myth that Macs use special peripherals that cost more than the PC counterparts. But the Mac has almost always supported the same peripherals as PC's. Sometimes Mac variants have more features - like Apple monitors support resolution sensing and higher scan rates (for clearer images) - but Macs still work with PC's peripherals as well.

For more on Peripherals - Peripheral Costs

Conclusions
Even if the PC's did cost less initially - which is a stretch - that would not alleviate all the other factors that contribute to a computers cost. Macs are still easier to install, easier to maintain, and easier to use - which is a lot of costs (time and money). Macs are easier to expand, and are often far more expandable (and pre-expanded) as compared to PC's. Macs offer more value, have higher customer satisfaction and higher reliability than PC's. If you have any doubt, then check out - [REFERENCE : COSTS] for all the studies and testamonials of people that beleive that Macs just cost less.
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  #24  
Old 03-22-2005, 08:00 PM
gijohn gijohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kedespo
PC users also forget to normalize for the Macs higher performance - for example a PowerPC can dramatically outperform the Pentiums, but people buy based on MHz, and don't realize that the Mac outclasses the Pentium. To buy the equivalent Mac they could buy a much slower MHz machine. (See links on performance).Once costs are normalized, the initial costs of Mac purchases are much less. Some PC users are penny smart but pound foolish - they save a few bucks up front (or think they do), and don't ever realize how much they cost themselves down the line.
I'm always frustrated when trying to convince a PC users that his (her) 32 bit chipped 3Mhz machine is quite a bit slower than my 2 Mhz, dual processor, 64 bit machine. Start throwing some PS lighting effects, gaussian blurs, mathematical functions ..... not even close.
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  #25  
Old 03-23-2005, 10:30 AM
kedespo kedespo is offline
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$1000.00 difference

I would also like to see a side by side comparison of two similar systems (one Mac & one PC any brand) I'd love to see this "$1000.00" difference documented.

Ed
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  #26  
Old 03-23-2005, 11:22 AM
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winwintoo winwintoo is offline
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Give it a rest already.

Margaret
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  #27  
Old 03-23-2005, 12:32 PM
gijohn gijohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winwintoo
Give it a rest already.
I'm confused ... is the topic mislabeled in some way?? Should we be talking about something else?
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  #28  
Old 03-23-2005, 01:28 PM
kedespo kedespo is offline
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I'm not trying to anger anyone, and I think I'm staying "on topic". I use Mac's at home, PC's at work. I have well over 10 years exp. on both systems. Macs are, hands down, more productive machines for me. (they allow me to be more productive) Less tinkering to get done what needs to be done.
I hear many non-mac people use the "Macs are more expensive" line without ever truly comparing the two. I'm talking about total cost of ownership, for the life of your machine. To use the car comparison yet again. Most people look at resale value , repair history, repair cost, gas milage, safety...etc. Yet, when buying a computer, that same person uses the line ,"more people use PC's than Macs" and "They're cheaper" ,they must be better.
McDonalds is also the most popular eating establishment. It's not that expensive. Do they have the best food....?

This topic will never have a true winner. (back to cars) Start a new topic in a car forum and ask who uses a Ford and who uses a Chevy and see what kind a war starts there.

Ed
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  #29  
Old 03-23-2005, 06:46 PM
gijohn gijohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kedespo
This topic will never have a true winner.
Couldn't agree more. Which begs the questions - why even discuss the subject. About like putting a conservative and liberal into a locked room for a day. Yowsa.

I have more respect for folks who gather information, test/use both systems and then make a decision ... be it Mac or PC. At least be a conscientious buyer.
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  #30  
Old 03-30-2005, 02:50 PM
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Swampy Swampy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kedespo
I would also like to see a side by side comparison of two similar systems (one Mac & one PC any brand) I'd love to see this "$1000.00" difference documented.

Ed
There is a speed test forum here on Retouch Pro and the G5 Macs have won hands down.
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