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Install problem

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2003, 03:29 PM
Steve Samuels Steve Samuels is offline
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Install problem

I'm on a Windows98 platform with Elements 2. When I try to run the Hidden Power .exe file (either through the Sybex flash or by double-clicking in Explorer) I get the following:

Runtime Error 202 at 0000429F

Help!! TIA

Steve
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2003, 12:47 PM
Steve Samuels Steve Samuels is offline
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Thumbs down problem solved

OOps! Once I specified the correct path to Elements during the install, it worked fine.
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2003, 02:10 PM
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DannyRaphael DannyRaphael is offline
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Hi Steve:

Glad you diagnosed your problem AND shared the solution.

Continued success with PSE2 & Hidden Elements.

Welcome aboard.
~DannyR~
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2003, 07:35 PM
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Richard_Lynch Richard_Lynch is offline
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If I have to enumerate the #1 problem with the install it is exactly this one...failing to browse for the target directory. It wasn't possible to put in a path that worked with Elements 1 and 2, so I put in what I thought was a prompt. Regretfully if you click through the screens (I know, I know...I do it too!) you get the runtime error. Gladly, it is an easy fix. If you are having the same trouble as Steve, click the Browse button to select the Elements program folder when installing. The button appears on the installation preferences screen and looks a lot like this: [...] .

Glad you are up and running, Steve. Hope you enjoy the book!
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2003, 05:23 PM
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Messed up now what?

I actually got 7 options in which to install the free set of tools. The first time I put it under PhotoShop Elements2 and nothing worked. I then ran the install again and this time put it under Adobe PhotoShop Elements and it worked.

I am on a Mac OSX 10.2.x

I would like to trash the files that were installed in the wrong area, but I don't know what files were already there and what needs to head to the trash.

I tried to "find" those files with finder, but only located the files in the proper place, and didn't find the now "hidden" files that were placed in the wrong location.

I did order the book today, and can't wait until it shows up so I can actually learn what those tools are supposed to do. As I wait, can someone help me figure out what installed files need to go to the trash?
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  #6  
Old 08-04-2003, 06:14 PM
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Richard_Lynch Richard_Lynch is offline
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Blink...You are going to be disappointed -- and not.

The tools that come with the book are completely different than the free tools. I don't know why people have that mixed up, but it seems a rather common misconception. Tools from the site are NEW tools in ADDITION to the tools in the book. The tools in the book are generally more powerful.

The book doesn't cover the tools from the site as they were created AFTER the book. So in that way you will be disappointed. However, all the tools from the CD are covered.

As to the files that got installed, there is an Advanced.rtf file in the installed files that lists ALL of the 4000 or so files that get installed with the free tools.

Hope that helps!
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  #7  
Old 08-04-2003, 07:53 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply!

I do understand that the book tools are not the same as the free tools, but assumed that I needed the book in order to get the demo's from the free set.

I also figured that because this current free set is labled III (3) that I should be able to find 2 and that 1 comes with the book...? right?

To find instructions on 2 and 3, I suppose I will have to dig around here and other places to understand how they work right?

Really cool stuff, its just kind of a map hunt to figure out where everything is located, and how to use it. I'm still in the novice ranks, so it takes me a while to hunt all this stuff down.

Yes Thanks for the tip on the advanced .rtf only 4000 more files to find... The temptation now is to just trash the whole app and start over...
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  #8  
Old 08-04-2003, 08:13 PM
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If anyone else is using a OSX 10.2.x and did the same thing I just did....

I just trashed everything under "show package contents" EXCEPT for the actual contents folder. This worked out fine and PSE2 and HP (free tools) still work like they should.
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:57 AM
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Richard_Lynch Richard_Lynch is offline
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About having 7 places to install...

The mac installer searches for the word 'Elements' in a folder. ANY folder with the word Elements in it's title will appear on the install list (e.g., Elements Prefs). You have to select the program folder, which should be Photoshop Elements 2.

Removing the installed files is really as easy as trashing the HTMLPalettes, Presets, and readme files that get created where they don't belong. Selecting those 5 things and dragging to the trash will remove the extra files. There is absolutely no change made to the Photoshop program.

Believe me, I am not trying to convince you out of buying the book. Lots of people see the tools on the website and just figure it can't get any better.

Sets 1 and 2 were rolled into set 3 -- all of these were created after publishing the book and are upgrade versions for the free tools only. There are about 50 or so additional tools that come with the book...When it comes time to publish the next version, I'll group everything together in a single comprehensive set for that, and add materials to the book to cover the new tool additions.

For now, if there is a tool you want to ask questions about, feel free!
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2003, 11:22 AM
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Need to make this clear please

Richard said,
"The mac installer searches for the word 'Elements' in a folder. ANY folder with the word Elements in it's title will appear on the install list (e.g., Elements Prefs). You have to select the program folder, which should be Photoshop Elements 2."

I did exactly this as described the first time I installed HP free tools. It is the wrong program folder!!!


If a person has installed PSE2 in the default location in OSX 10.2.x, You will have an application folder named Adobe Photoshop Elements 2, and inside that folder will be another folder named Photoshop Elements 2.

1. Adobe Photoshop Elements 2 is the correct parent (?) application folder to install HP free tools.

2. Photoshop Elements 2 is the actual launch application folder, and the WRONG place to install HP free tools.

BOTH ARE "program" folders, by my translation. Both also give installation sucessful confirmation.

Please note that no other instructions as to which of these "program" folders the installation must occur, and the advanced .rtf
read me is available AFTER the install, as stated in the pre install readmedo.rtf.

I can understand how frustrating it must be for a programmer to include a readme that some do not read, then have problems. I do actually read the read me's, but don't always have enough pre knowledge to understand terms and procedures associated with the new application that make installation complete and accurate.

In this case, there is not enough information about installation in the readmedo, that covers the problem I had, and this information should be included in the install application, or the readmedo for Mac users.

With free stuff...
If the application hangs, freezes, fails to install, causes any problem at all, I trash it, as do many people. I "would" have done the same here, except that I did have the pre knowledge that HP does work and does work well. How many people give up or do not try because the install is intimidating?

I only mention this because I have taken note of your marketing attempt, and can see clearly that HP is in it for the long haul. I have also seen that the book has not been a "best seller", and it is my assumption the reason behind the free tools. Wonderful idea and plan.

Can I conclude with my opinion for increased sales?
1. Benifits sell a product, features rarely do.

All the HP features and tools are wonderful, but "what's in it for me?" what example can you give that relates to me? Who is the PSE2 customer? The novice ranks... The novice ranks need a "this is why this is better" before they jump in. Most don't have a clue as to what is missed from the full version Photoshop, and you do a better job of selling the full version Photoshop, than you do HP tools.

Keep your marketing of this free tools package simple, and maybe only 3 easy to understand and use upgrades/tools. Fully explained as they relate to themselves and the user. After all you need more users, not more tools that no one uses.

If you feel frustrated that people can't even install, you must understand that the tools are not understood either.

I can't count the number of times I tried a tutorial (online), only to be insulted by..."if you have done any other tutorials you SHOULD already know how to... but here it is again". Glad to know someone is smarter than I am, but that is the wrong attitude for teaching. I was interested in solving problem xxx, not learning how little I know. (this I already knew and was the REASON I was there duhhh)

The first thing I think any Photoshop user catches is that there are many ways to do a single task in Photoshop. Why is yours better? What is your response to the most common requests of PSE2 users? (the novice ranks) What is the most common request?

I know these tools enable functions not available in PSE2, but "why would I want to do that?" Show me! I might not even know I have a problem that "could" be fixed... (I am a novice)

How many advanced PSE2 users have moved on to full Photoshop? How many advanced PSE2 users are there? Who is your target customer? (the novice! or advanced novice! )
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2003, 01:43 PM
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Richard_Lynch Richard_Lynch is offline
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Actually, blink, HP has been selling pretty well. If you take a look on Amazon, it is the #2 Elements book...I've been pretty happy with the response, which is rarely negative.

About all that other stuff...Installation instructions appear on screen when you are installing the free tools. I would hardly say that an automated installer is "intimidating". If you have a better means of building the installer, I am all ears...

The free tools were primarily meant to fill requests for people who already bought Hidden Power. I will give people tools if they want them. While I was at it, I figured that other people might want the tools and that they might enjoy having a look at more than just samples. This seemed to fit the bill...and by adding a few little things it seemed like a promotional opportunity.

Who does it attract? Not really the novice. The novice is a great audience, but it isn't mine. I am not going to show people how to use a brush and such -- it isn't the point of the book. For the tools to fit with the book, they should be advanced. They are.

That there is little instruction with the free tools is really a matter of investment. I have limited time and resources...and really authors don't end up in chauffered limos. I have to write more books, get to my regular job, etc. I simply cannot support writing extensive documentation for tools that I frankly think are secondary. The primary tools are in the book. Those are described and are pretty darned useful. I am of the opinion they are all you really need. Supporting the free tools creates redundancy...and beside, anyone is free to ask questions here or on the newsletter or directly through email. I am not hiding. Tell me the questions and I'll answer. The free tools also provide some quick market research: what do people really want? What do they have questions about using?

I understand your points, and agree with a few. It may be better not to supply tools at all than to get people frustrated. Well, I guess I give users a lot of credit, and refuse to sell them short -- so I also guess I am willing to frustrate a few. People have trouble installing Elements for goodness sake...nothing is foolproof. These same people (not always) will probably not be the type of user the book was designed for. I had a choice: give away free tools, let them sit in a digital drawer, charge for them. I thought I was doing a nice thing by giving them away. Perhaps I should reconsider. I have probably hundreds more. Quite frankly, I think these are pretty well supported in comparison to a lot of other freeware you might try.

Am I doing more to sell Photoshop than Hidden Power? I don't think so. Not everyone has 700$ to spend on a program that they might not really need. Are the free tools supposed to be the solution? Nope. If they were, WHO WOULD BUY THE BOOK?! If I market the free tools and they have the full benefit, then I fail to sell ANY books to people who find them and learn them...and think that is all there is to it. Lots of people think the free tools are all there is in Hidden Power and that they don't need the darned book...I can't seem to make that clear either. So many people go to install te tools before reading the introduction that they don't know the password...One thing I have found is I can't force people to read much, and I can't disseminate information so everyone gets it. Some people love the free tools...Some think they should be magic, like they assume Photoshop will be. If for nothing else, they should be happy I saved them 700$.

I am sorry you had trouble installing the free tools. I am really not sure what to do about that. I might be able to make the installer more intelligent, but frankly that is NOT my forte. If someone changes the name of their Elements program folder (people do...I know!), making it smarter might actually cause MORE failures.

So...all that said, I appreciate your time. Believe me, I've what-ifed this to death. It is really the first advanced book for elements, and perhaps that alone makes it a stretch. It also makes it unique in the genre...if you want beginners books, there are about 40 of them. And perhaps its OK if it helps people advance to Photoshop -- as I write books for that too! I do know I will probably approach it a little differently next time -- and will probably have to as the program changes (I expect Adobe to remove even more on the next go-round than they did between 1 and 2, but have no idea what will happen).

Anyhow, thanks for taking the time...but I think this train is on the downside of the mountain. We'll see what happens next version.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2003, 02:41 PM
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2003blink 2003blink is offline
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Ok richard, I understand perfectly now. I am sorry if my best intentions were not understood. In short, I think you should get rich and be able to retire off your book. That was the motivation.

Thanks and all the best wishes for your growing success!
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2003, 06:00 PM
pmarchant pmarchant is offline
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I've only bought two Elements books, the second being HP (the first I don't recommend at all).

I found I didn't need a beginner's book; I learnt by just playing with the program and going through the Elements tips on Jay Arraich's site

Obviously everyone is different, but it's worth checking out what's on the web first before forking out on a beginner's book. (Like me you might find you don't need the beginner's book, and the money you've saved can go towards the HP book instead )

Paul.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2003, 09:05 AM
BobJones BobJones is offline
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Of all the photo books I've purchased, there are only two I would consider buying the 2nd edition. One is Katrin Eismann's Photoshop Restoration and Retouching (which is now available). The other is Richard's Hidden Powers.

If I were a graphics professional making my living in the field, I would have the full Photoshop, no hesitation. However, I'm not and I don't. Yes, there are things in the full Photoshop that I would find useful, but Elements, along with the core tools from the book, satisfy most of what I need. The free tools are a nice touch but Richard is correct. The ones in the book are the primary ones.

If Adobe removes more basic capabilities in the next version of Elements (or removes the ones that Richard has provided the interface to access such as curves), I don't think I would purchase it or recommend it to my friends.
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2003, 10:18 AM
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Richard_Lynch Richard_Lynch is offline
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Bob Jones Said:
Quote:
If Adobe removes more basic capabilities in the next version of Elements (or removes the ones that Richard has provided the interface to access such as curves), I don't think I would purchase it or recommend it to my friends.
Well, there are potentially other ways to work around things that they remove...It really depands on what they do. Who knows, they may open the program up MORE...quite possible. I also agree with you on Katrin's book ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...02/newwriting/ ). She is very good at what she does and has more of the timeless type of technique I use and try to preach.

Blink Said:
Quote:
I understand perfectly now. I am sorry if my best intentions were not understood.
Blink, I think you were trying to encourage me, and I appreciate it. I'd hoped the book would have made more of a splash, but some things take time. I doubt I'll retire on it, but I'd settle for making way so I can spend more dedicated time with it.

Paul Said:
Quote:
it's worth checking out what's on the web first before forking out on a beginner's book.
Perfect. I think this is absolutely right. Between the manual (which does tell you how to use the tools -- just not the context) and online tutorials, most users should have the opportunity to learn the basics virtually for free. Anything else is something I would hope would appear as a question on the newsletter and here on the forum! No need to buy a basic book to outgrow in a few weeks...[I won't ask which you WON'T buy...]
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