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  #11  
Old 08-13-2005, 04:05 PM
maureeno maureeno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameraken
I am posting my unfinished work because I have got stuck.
I’ve got rid of the tear through her mouth but the more I look the more I see teeth here. This alters the whole shape of her mouth.

Could someone have a look at the original and see what you think.

Thanks.

Ken.
Good job, Ken, but I don't see any teeth, though. It looks like another tear in the photo to me, but I could be wrong.

Maureen
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  #12  
Old 08-13-2005, 04:09 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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ken,

your question about the lips and teeth got me looking closer. i dont think the teeth are showing, but it's darned hard to tell.

i also took a closer look at something that was bothering me ever since this image was posted. her left eye (on our right) is lower than the right. on looking at the image closer and by putting a grid on the image, i confirmed this. then, at looking at what i had thought to be fold/crease marks, i've come to the conclusion that these are actual tear marks and that someone has put this back together from pieces.

now, that also changes things. i've seen features on folks where one part is larger or smaller or slightly out of whack with a corresponding mirror part, like having one foot slightly larger than the other, but i've NEVER seen anyone with an eye that was that much lower on the face than the other one.

and, if you look at the lower lip, right in the middle horizontally, you can see what looks like her lip takes an S curve...seemingly. there are things like hairlips and so on that might account for such a thing, but i dont think so in this case. in light of all the other oddiites here, i'd say that portion of the lip was either put back wrong, someone tried to draw something in after the tear repair, or it's just an anomoly created by the tear repair.

like i said earlier, this is not an easy restore. and ken, i can certainly see how you'd arrive at teeth, and i certainly cant rule it out, but my leaning at this point is not.

Craig
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  #13  
Old 08-13-2005, 07:25 PM
maureeno maureeno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
ken,



i also took a closer look at something that was bothering me ever since this image was posted. her left eye (on our right) is lower than the right. on looking at the image closer and by putting a grid on the image, i confirmed this. then, at looking at what i had thought to be fold/crease marks, i've come to the conclusion that these are actual tear marks and that someone has put this back together from pieces.

now, that also changes things. i've seen features on folks where one part is larger or smaller or slightly out of whack with a corresponding mirror part, like having one foot slightly larger than the other, but i've NEVER seen anyone with an eye that was that much lower on the face than the other one.

Craig
Craig, here's a picture of me that bears a similar eye level disparity, but my eyes are really quite straight, my head was slightly tilted in this picture. It looks like Marie's head is also slightly tilted. I could well be wrong though on Marie's.

Maureen
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  #14  
Old 08-13-2005, 07:55 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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maureen,

yes, i understand and i tried to compensate for that, the slight tilt, but it still just doesnt look right to me. i look at yours, the one of yourself and the individual eye angle matches up with the other. on the damaged pic they dont. the eye angles dont match up right. it just looks wrong to me.

but, on your advice, i'll take another look

Craig
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  #15  
Old 08-13-2005, 08:47 PM
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Cameraken Cameraken is offline
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Thanks Maureen. And thanks for the picture. If you put a guide on your picture your left eye is lower than your right but if you add a vertical guide this shows that your nose is to the left of the centre of your lips. This shows that your head is just tilted and you are Perfectly formed. I’ve posted the straightened version.
Craig is talking about a Very big difference.


Craig.
I had not noticed the eyes. But you are correct. Also the nostrils look correct in the horizontal but they appear to be different sizes and the area between the nose and the mouth does not seem in keeping with the rest of the picture.
It now looks like the triangular bit of the picture which contains the left eye could be raised up.

Her lips do take an S curve and that was one of the reasons I thought the mouth was open.

I think I’ll split this picture into pieces and start again.

I have been at RP for about six months. And it’s only now that I appreciate what an excellent job you do. You come along and assess these images and point everyone in the correct direction. You don’t get the praise you deserve for this as no-one sees the immediate results. But I would like to thank you for your contributions. You do a wonderful job.

Ken.
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  #16  
Old 08-13-2005, 10:24 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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ken,

thank you. that means a lot to me!

also, good catch on the nostrils. i hadnt noticed that one. that's a dead give-away also. that triangular piece is definitely lower than the part on the left, just as you said.

Craig
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2005, 11:55 PM
maureeno maureeno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
maureen,

yes, i understand and i tried to compensate for that, the slight tilt, but it still just doesnt look right to me. i look at yours, the one of yourself and the individual eye angle matches up with the other. on the damaged pic they dont. the eye angles dont match up right. it just looks wrong to me.

but, on your advice, i'll take another look

Craig

You were absolutely right, Craig, and I realised that after reading Ken's version of grids. Maybe our Marie's picture was torn and repasted together after all?

With as little as any of us knows, anything is possible and is, also, quite likely.

What a delightful little mystery this has become...

Maureen
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2005, 12:45 AM
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Skyopal Skyopal is offline
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What to do?

I tried to retouch it. I just joined tonight and saw that. I needed some practice so this is how it turned out.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2005, 11:25 AM
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Cameraken Cameraken is offline
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Phew. Craig was right. This was a big job.

Here are all the steps that I remember.

Selected the left eye triangle and moved it so that the eyes were level
Copied her right nostril to the left.
Selected the bottom half of the picture and moved it up to align the mouth.
Cleaned it up a bit
Added clothing
Neat image
Sepia toned.


Ken.
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File Type: jpg Ken_Marie V2.jpg (85.8 KB, 31 views)
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2005, 12:32 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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ken,

amazing job! you nailed the nose! and, you cleaned up and brought out the blouse! excellent!

the eyes still bugged me a bit, so i took your image and looked at it again in psp 9. and then it hit me from what maureen had said about the head tilt. so, i took the original image, put a selection on the triangular piece of the left eye and put the grid up and tried to adjust things, but they wouldnt quite work to the grid. so, taking maureen's suggestion about head tilt, i rotated the image 3 degrees to the left. aha! i then took your image and rotated just 2 degrees to the left and bingo! that was the other missing part for the alignment. so, your image works fine!

i'm posting a blow-up of having moved the triangle and having rotated to show you what i mean better. so, what i'm saying here is, your image is fine with the eyes (amazing, actually!) and it was the head tilt that was throwing me on the last.

very, very well done!!

Craig
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