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raw - AHHH

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  #1  
Old 11-06-2006, 05:30 PM
Airdale Airdale is offline
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raw - AHHH

I just upgraded from Photoshop 7 to photoshop CS2... and thinking how cool this was I decided to shoot in raw mode. The pictures all turned out really grainy! I had taken some regular jpeg pictures that same day in the same place with the same settings - and there was no problem. What do I do? Does shooting in raw require something special? Can I save my pictures? Please help!

thank you
Airdake
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Old 11-06-2006, 09:44 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Re: raw - AHHH

Airdale, when you view a RAW image in Adobe Camera RAW preview window, turn OFF all of those Auto settings to see what the image really looked like off the camera's sensor array. Another suggestion would be for you to post a RAW file (original unprocessed) somewhere so we can check to see what it is like.
RAW files, unprocessed, preserve the image just as it was seen by the camera sensor. If you took these images at the same settings (proper exposure and correct focus), then the quality when processed should be better than the jpeg images because the RAW files are likely 12-16 bit.
Regards, Murray
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:08 PM
Airdale Airdale is offline
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Re: raw - AHHH

Hi Murray

I tried turning off the auto settings but it did not do anything about the grain problem. I am wondering if I DID change the camera settings when I switched from jpeg to raw. I may have had the camera on auto in jpeg and switched to P for raw... I have no idea what camera setting would lead to increased grain though. Do you? Here are two pictures from the same location. One was shot in RAW and the other in JPEG. The smooth one is the JPEG and the grainy one is RAW.

thank you for your help
Airdale
Attached Images
File Type: jpg monya-raw-2.jpg (97.0 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg monya-jpeg.jpg (92.3 KB, 60 views)
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Old 11-07-2006, 06:54 PM
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Re: raw - AHHH

Airdale,
First the solution: Running a noise filter, such as Noiseware, will quickly eliminate the color noise as per the sample attached.

Next the problem: The many images that I have seen like this are the result of underexposed images which were brightened in post processing. There is an abundant amount of data (exposure, timing, Histogram, etc) which can be used to analyze your problem but that info is embedded in your RAW file. The RAW file you attached is actually a processed jpg and all of the metadata has been stipped out.
Try posting the orig RAW file somewhere where we can download it. If you don't have any space on your ISP's server, you could try http://www.imageshack.us/ - it's free.
Regards, Murray
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File Type: jpg Airdale RAW Noiseware.jpg (81.8 KB, 20 views)
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  #5  
Old 11-07-2006, 09:54 PM
Mike Mike is online now
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Re: raw - AHHH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdale
Hi Murray
I may have had the camera on auto in jpeg and switched to P for raw...
thank you for your help
Airdale
Can you explain that a little further? Auto what?

Also, what kind of camera? How do the respective histograms compare?
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Old 11-08-2006, 01:28 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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Re: raw - AHHH

you might also check out your camera on dpreview. see how it stacks up. some cameras do have a grain problem, particulary some of the digitals.
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:55 PM
Airdale Airdale is offline
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Re: raw - AHHH

Hi all

I have tried in vain to figure out a way to upload the RAW file. Geocities won't accept it nor will imageshack. I tried uploading the file as TIFF although I am not sure what it is. here is the URL for it

http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?i...eaning3lc0.png

Will that work? if not, any other ideas how/where i can upload a raw file?

As for camera...

Is is a Canon SD50, 5 mgp. The ISO was set to 400 for both the RAW and the JPEG pictures. The f stop and shutter speed were selected automatically by the camera as 4.9 and 1/125 for the RAW file and as 4.9 and 1/60 for the jpeg. Focul length was 21.3 for both. What other info would be helpful?

Craig, if the problem was my camera (as oposed to the camera's operator) wouldn't the grain problem be the same in raw and in jpeg?

Mike, I am not sure how the histograms compare because the jpeg one does not give me a histogram... erm... what i mean is that the raw file gives a histogram and other options to play with before the file goes to photoshop but the jpeg does not. I can check a histogram in say levels - is that what you mean?

Thank you so much. Maybe i'll understand this yet!
-Airdale
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:47 PM
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Re: raw - AHHH

Airdale, you actually saved the image as a png which is no better than the jpg. The meta data has been stripped out. Also don't save it as a tiff as that won't help either. The problem is once you convert a RAW file to anything else, the image is modified either by PS or by your camera's processing s/w.

Next I agree any damage to the image would also show up in the jpg file.

So I really think the RAW file needs to be examined.

I will see if I can find a place where you can upload it.

Regards, Murray
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:13 PM
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CJ Swartz CJ Swartz is offline
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Re: raw - AHHH

Airdale,

Your uploaded image doesn't appear to be a raw file -- "tiff" or "tif" is a different format from raw. Canon's raw file is often a .crw format. Do you have some files that end in .crw? Murray said that Imageshack would accept them -- what error message did you get when you tried?

Grain is generally increased when there is underexposure, so you could have shot two pictures close together and still have one of them that had less light o it that made it underexposed -- just moving a foot or two can change the light, or the sun going behind a cloud, or a person turning their face away from the light, etc. could result in two differently lighted photos -- and different amounts of grain. Grain isn't such a terrible thing, and folks here have already recommended software that can reduce the grain that shows.

Just keep trying to give us information, and posting the original image file, and someone will be able to help you start to learn more about how to improve your photos even better -- the photos were nice to start with!

I see that Murray and I were posting at the same time (only he got done first!). Look for the .crw files and let's see where Murray can find for you to post them.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2006, 10:26 PM
Airdale Airdale is offline
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Re: raw - AHHH

My raw file is hopefully in Murray's hands. Thank you Murray for the rescue! I thought of something else that may or may not be relevent:

When i switched to RAW my camera took a really long time to process each shot. WAY longer than jpgs. Is that normal or is it an indication of something being messed up? Also, do raw files need more light then jpegs? ... maybe that's the problem?

<<Grain is generally increased when there is underexposure, so you could have shot two pictures close together and still have one of them that had less light o it that made it underexposed -- just moving a foot or two can change the light, or the sun going behind a cloud, or a person turning their face away from the light, etc. could result in two differently lighted photos -- and different amounts of grain.>>

that is a good point. I am still learning how light will effect my pics. but i see grain in ALL the raw files and NONE of the jpegs. You'd think that even by sheer luck i would have gotten some properly exposed raw shots...

<< Grain isn't such a terrible thing, and folks here have already recommended software that can reduce the grain that shows.>>

I use neatimage as well as PS2's filter... but when I zoom in to the face the detail level difference is very disturbing. no amount of grain reducing seems to get me to the jpeg detail level, though it does help (especially in murray's example) I am attaching face close-ups to show the difference. The face was about the same proportion of the image on both pics.

thank you
-Airdale
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File Type: jpg face3.jpg (90.9 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg face4jpg.jpg (83.6 KB, 13 views)
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