Problem with Multiply Blend Mode

[raggatt]

Greetings,
I'm a Photoshop beginner with Photoshop 7. I've got a big problem with the Multiply blend mode. When I use this mode (i.e. with tools and/or layers), it often creates blocks of thin lines randomly throughout my pictures. I've tried everything I can think of and can't prevent this from happening. I've looked online and haven't found anyone else discussing this problem, can I be the only one who has had it?

I've attached a pic which, shows the discolored blocks. The actual lines they're made up of don't show up very well, but they do really stand out and totally wreck the picture!! This only happens in the Multiply mode that I know of. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[pixelzombie]

they could be jpeg artifacts but it's hard to tell with such a small file...post a hi-res version to flickr so we can have a better look...

[raggatt]

Thanks for your response! I've never used Flickr before, so hope this works.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23926026@N08/?saved=1

I think the last photo titled "Multiply blend mode lines" is probably the best close up of the problem.

[pixelzombie]

i see what you mean, are all of these from the same camera and or scanner?

[raggatt]

Yes, they're from the same camera. I haven't tried photoshopping images from other sources.

I've also added a couple more examples on Flickr, which might show the actual lines better (same link in previous post). One was created as a result of using the gradient tool and another using the brush tool, again, in Multiply blend mode.

Should I try using an image from another source? I don't have another camera, so would have to download something off the internet.

Thanks again!

[pixelzombie]

try some different images from a high quality source...

[raggatt]

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any better sources. My only camera is a new Canon PowerShot SD800 IS, which should be alright for a point and shoot.
So I'm stuck?

[Markzebra]

Very odd problem you have there. Its certainly not related to Photoshop itself, I've never seen anything like this. It may something to do with your setup, I assume you are using a PC, or some strange issue related to screen resolution (check your color depth) which I seem to remember is located in a control panel "displays"

[pixelzombie]

try it with this image:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45178172@N00/2220455034/

[raggatt]

pixelzombie - thanks for the beautiful pic. I wasn't sure how to know if a photo downloaded from the internet was from a "good source" or not...

Unfortunately, the problem's still there. If you click the link below and look at a large version of the photo, you can see the lines in the grey area, which I created with the gradient tool in Multiply mode:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23926026@N08/?saved=1

Markzebra, Yes, I have a pretty good HP with Windows Vista and a Samsung SyncMaster 900BW monitor. Both are less than a year old. The display settings are optimized according to Windows instructions in the control panel. As far as I know, I don't have any other problems...including with Photoshop, or even other blending modes! Are you sure it isn't related to Photoshop?

I guess this is pretty unusual because, as I said, I haven't seen anything at all about this type of problem online. It's very frustrating, especially since I'd like to use Multiply alot if I could.

[pixelzombie]

try resetting the photoshop preferences...

[raggatt]

Good idea - I tried, but still there.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2392602...96933/sizes/o/

I appreciate the feedback, but fear there may not be a fix?

[cricket1961]

I have seen this problem before. Mostly with the block sample though.

Does this happen when you are viewing at multiple Magnifications? Does it happen under 50% view and disappear above 50% viewing?

Try giving the image a strong blur and then change the blur mode to multiply with the fade command. Does it happen then?

Chris

[raggatt]

Chris, thanks for the reply.

Yes, it happens both above and below 50% viewing.

Per your post above, I took a new, untouched pic, applied a strong blur, then faded with multiply...No lines.

BUT, the multiply blend mode doesn't always create the lines.
It does it about a half the time. Some tools/actions always do it and others don't...
I've tried, but can't find a common theme though among the ones that do and the ones that don't.

[byRo]

This is interesting!

Something nobody has asked yet....
When you multilply, your original image is (probably) on the lower layer and something else (with blend mode "Multiply") is on the upper layer.

What is on the upper layer? Is it another copy of the original? A blank layer? Something else?

(Looking at what you did with pixelzombie's image it seems that you have applied some sort of diagonal gradient. - Could be that the problem is with the gradient)

and

Are you using masks?

Rô
(for now, my vote is Vista video problem)

[raggatt]

byRO - Thanks for your response.

The problem happens when I use multiply directly on an original background image and on an upper layer. The upper layer can be a copy of the original image or an adjustment layer (i.e. curves layer). It happens when I use the gradient and brush tools, and when I use multiply with a style (i.e. pattern). So, a pretty wide variety of situations.

I did notice that it might have something to do with combining multiply and transparency. In the example using the gradient tool, it happens when I reduce the transparency of the gradient tool below 100%, and/or the transparency box is checked. It also happens in styles when I apply a pattern overlay in multiply mode and reduce the transparency below 100%. It doesn't happen when I apply a color overlay though!

Any ideas about the cause of this are greatly appreciated!

[raggatt]

Here's an example using pattern overlay in styles.

This image is a pattern overlay in multiply mode at 100% transparency.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2392602...28179/sizes/o/

Here's the same image with the transparency reduced to 60%. The lines appear as soon as the transparency is reduced below 100%. In this situation, they appear on the entire image at once, versus in random blocks here and there, as happens when using the brush and gradient tools.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2392602...19966/sizes/o/

Sorry if I'm beating this to death but, as you may understand, I'm really desperate for a solution.

[Markzebra]

Yes I am pretty sure its not a Photoshop problem -. Try changing the cache levels Preferences/memory and image cache. 6 is the default but try changing it. You need to restart Photoshop for this to take effect.

Sound like Chris might have your solution if he's seen this before

[raggatt]

Thanks for the idea. I tried a number of different cache levels and still no luck....

[CJ Swartz]

raggatt --
1. Using Pixelzombie's image, which we know is a high quality image, show us what it looks like when you simply use a copy of the original layer set to multiply mode above the original -- you said the problem occurs then also. I think it is helpful to eliminate the possibility of gradients/styles etc. that might be affecting the final look, and just concentrate on the multiply mode itself first.

2. Does anything unusual show up using any of the other darkening modes - Darken, Color Burn? Does anything happen when using screen and lightening modes? You haven't mentioned a problem, but you may not use those modes in your work, and if there is another mode that shows unusual effects (or not), it might help folks figure out a solution.

[palms]

I cant offer any advice to you or help for others trying to "work things" out for you but just thought i would let you know you are not on your own

I put this down to low light for my camera but i have had it happen since on other peoples photo's when using blendmodes/filters but that sporadic it hasnt fell into a pattern
so will be interested in any outcome and will let you know if and when i have it happen again

this is the best "evidence" i could come up with

Palms

[pixelhunter]

I think PS 7 has a Multiply-bug. Try the 7.0.1 update.

[byRo]

palms, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that you are using PS 7 on a Vista machine.
If that is so, then we have found ourselves a pattern.

Rô

[raggatt]

Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been out all day.

CJ - Per your suggestion, I applied multiply mode to a copy of pixelzombie's photo, over the original. And yes, the problem does appear, but only at various transparencies. There are no lines at 100%, but when I reduce the transparency they appear at 74%, disappear at 48%, reappear at 24% and then disappear again at 0%. I tried another photo and the same thing happened.

And, so far, multiply mode is the only blend mode I've noticed a problem with. I've played around with all of them and haven't noticed it with any others.

I appreciate the other comments too, and wonder if it is the Photoshop 7 /Vista combination? Unfortunately, I'm stuck with both for now. I'm out of work, broke, and can't afford any kind of upgrade at the moment. If upgrading's the only way to fix it, I'm afraid I'll have to wait....

[pixelhunter]

Originally Posted by raggatt

Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been out all day.

CJ - Per your suggestion, I applied multiply mode to a copy of pixelzombie's photo, over the original. And yes, the problem does appear, but only at various transparencies. There are no lines at 100%, but when I reduce the transparency they appear at 74%, disappear at 48%, reappear at 24% and then disappear again at 0%. I tried another photo and the same thing happened.

And, so far, multiply mode is the only blend mode I've noticed a problem with. I've played around with all of them and haven't noticed it with any others.

I appreciate the other comments too, and wonder if it is the Photoshop 7 /Vista combination? Unfortunately, I'm stuck with both for now. I'm out of work, broke, and can't afford any kind of upgrade at the moment. If upgrading's the only way to fix it, I'm afraid I'll have to wait....

The "upgrade" to 7.0.1 is free.

[palms]

Originally Posted by byRo

palms, I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that you are using Photoshop 7 on a Vista machine.
If that is so, then we have found ourselves a pattern.

Rô

Yep i am using vista sounds like that is the pattern then

Palms

[pixelhunter]

Is this thing on?

p

[Dave.Cox]

I have seen this before, when I had PS7 on my lap top with limited memory, and a small hardrive. Adding memory fixed the problem. Are you on a PC or a Mac? How much memory do you have, and do you have room for a scratch disk?

[raggatt]

Thanks again for all the responses.
I didn't know the upgrade is free! I'm hoping I can get it then, because my PS7 disc was given to me by a long lost co-worker when she upgraded to CS2.

I have a desktop PC with 500 GB memory, 2048 MB RAM and Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950. I've got 226 GB on my C: drive, with only 66 GB of that used, and 120 GB free.

I don't if that means I have room for a scratch disk and am not sure what that is. I'll read up on them in the PS help guide.

Again, thanks to everyone very, very much for all your kind replies!!! I appreciate the effort.

[pixelhunter]

I don't think you need the disc to update.

Here's the direct link from Adobe, to the 7.0.1 update:

http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/....x/ps701up.exe