RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Image Help
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Image Help Got a problem image? Don't know where to begin? Upload images and ask our users what they think or if they can help

Need some advice

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-22-2003, 02:29 PM
KevinBE's Avatar
KevinBE KevinBE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 511
Need some advice

I am working on a manuplation project for a friend. The picture is of a father and daughter, at a wedding, going down the isle. The setting is out doors there are many people, chairs, grass, and a Hotel in this background. The request was to isolate the couple from all of this and enhance the image of the daughter and father.

I have recently purchased Knockout 2.0, and this was my first time to use it. Needless to say, this was a tough job for Knockout. I really gave it a good test. But after seeing the results I think I may need to try another approach. Three big problems exist, the girls veil is very sheer and there is a lot of background showing through, her bouquet has a lot of thin runners shooting out in all directions, and the father is walking in front of a woman whose dress is the same color as his coat.

Now this is tough but I think I almost have it figured out. But, I thought I would also try a different approach and offer it to my friend. I thought I would enhance the couple and blur the background. Do you think that this is a good approach? What would be the best proceedure for creating the blurred background effect?
Reply With Quote top
  #2  
Old 01-22-2003, 03:08 PM
T Paul's Avatar
T Paul T Paul is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 2,987
Wow that does sound like a difficult one. I think blurring the background is a good approach to take. It will reduce clutter, place more emphasis on the bride and most likely create a softer overall look. As long as there aren't people in the background that they want to see in the photograph, I think blurring the background sounds like the way to go.

Here are a couple of tutorials that may help:
Background Blurring Tut
Isolation
It's All A Blur
Depth of Field

~T

Last edited by T Paul; 01-22-2003 at 03:48 PM.
Reply With Quote top
  #3  
Old 01-22-2003, 06:52 PM
Mig Mig is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SF
Posts: 265
If you just want to select the couple and blur the background, use the pen tool. Trace around them, turn the path into a selection, expand the selection by a pixel, feather the selection by 1 pixel, then blur... and if you want an interesting look, fade the blur in darken or lighten mode.

If you want to remove them and change the background that's more complicated. Commercial mask filters are an easy way out and may be useful at times, but for something like this you really need to try a combination of several methods. Trace around whatever you can with the pen tool and then turn the path into a selection and then save the selection in an alpha channel. This selection will act as a base for all to follow because you can take this alpha channel, duplicate it and then manipulate the duplicate by softening it, or whatever else you want to try to improve your selections.
You can then go back to a duplicated copy in the layers pallette and add a layer mask and activate the selection from the alpha channel and then paint in and out whatever you want or don't want while painting on the layer mask with the default colours of black and white. (Prior to doing this you should add a layer and fill it with some "different" colour and drag this layer below the duplicate, so when you go to work you'll see what kinds of changes you're making.)
As for the girl's veil, you have many options. You can select it, then remove the unwanted colour, but a better way would be to paint on top of it. (If you want to retain the sheer quality of the fabric, then you might opt for the former, and fix that later when you decide on whatever background you'll eventually put the people in since the see-through colour might be different, in which case you can change the colour of the background showing through the veil with whatever colour-changing adjustment layer you're comfortable with.)
Trying to select the "thin runners" may be hopeless, depending on their size. You might end up with a pixelated look. May be better off removing these "thin runners" all together in the masking stage, and then painting them back in by hand. Depends on how big they are and how easy they are to select. Or, grab what you can with a selection, soften it, then paint them back in on layers above & below the layer you're working on. This is the same problem with hair. People try to select minute strands of hair and end up with an unnatural-looking pixelated strands,when they should paint hair back in using a small brush.

Knockout has the reputation of the being a superior commercial mask filter, but it, along with MaskPro, the extract tool and any other commercial masking filter is sloppy and "dumb", compared to what's available via channels and a couple other techniques using invert & difference.


Mig
Reply With Quote top
  #4  
Old 01-22-2003, 08:12 PM
KevinBE's Avatar
KevinBE KevinBE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 511
I guess I should post a copy of the pic. This is the unaltered cropped scan I took of the 4x6 snapshot I was given. I guess I should get used to someone handing me a 4x6 or 3x5 and asking me to crop out a section and blow it up. Problem is most "snap shots" aren't usually very good quality images to begin with.

I like what I have read of your posts so far. I was able to successfully manually extract the pair from this photo but an artifical background doesn't look too natural when the original BG was an outdoor scene. Or at least using my proceedures. All your help is very much appreciated.

It looks like I'll have a film grain problem if I attempt to enlarge the shot too much.
Reply With Quote top
  #5  
Old 01-22-2003, 08:13 PM
KevinBE's Avatar
KevinBE KevinBE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 511
Guess it would help if I remember to attach the file huh.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg untitled-1xscan.jpg (80.0 KB, 93 views)
Reply With Quote top
  #6  
Old 01-22-2003, 08:16 PM
KevinBE's Avatar
KevinBE KevinBE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 511
Lets see if I can make this bigger. The other image seems to small to see anything.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg untitled-1xscan1.jpg (98.2 KB, 82 views)
Reply With Quote top
  #7  
Old 01-22-2003, 09:25 PM
KevinBE's Avatar
KevinBE KevinBE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 511
T, thanks for the tutorials I went through them and gathered a lot of info. This does seem like the way to go.

Mig, you just reminded me how far I have to go yet in Photoshop. Thanks for the insite. I will have to try your techniques.

Chuck, hope the image post will give you an idea of the scope of the project.

This is giving me a chance to learn some new techniques.
Reply With Quote top
  #8  
Old 01-22-2003, 09:38 PM
Paul Rupp's Avatar
Paul Rupp Paul Rupp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Just north of Dallas Texas
Posts: 78
Kevin,

I would recommend removing them entirely from the photo and placing them on a new background. As far as her vail, you could fix the parts that you can see through with the copy tool. You could even (after you fix it) select the parts of the vail that you couls see through and change there opacity so you could see the new background through it.

Shouldn't be too hard to do.

Good luck!!

Paul
Reply With Quote top
  #9  
Old 01-22-2003, 11:03 PM
KevinBE's Avatar
KevinBE KevinBE is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 511
Hi Paul. I'ill have to start trying to figure out what background would be appropriate for this setting. I already have them extracted. I just haven't found a good BG yet. I'll look at both methods and see what works best. I may just complete the project with an example of each and let my friend decide which way she likes. At least it's good practice.
Reply With Quote top
  #10  
Old 01-23-2003, 11:28 AM
Paul Rupp's Avatar
Paul Rupp Paul Rupp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Just north of Dallas Texas
Posts: 78
A good park backdrop would be nice for a shot like this.

Hope it works out! Post the results, I for one would like to see them.

Paul
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Image Help


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
First post asking for critique and advice smiley guy Critiques 7 07-27-2006 05:31 PM
need advice on a price repair/restore bubb Work/Jobs 4 05-04-2005 12:54 AM
Need help and advice to clean up this image ogee Photo Restoration 12 04-03-2005 10:40 AM
Need advice on starting business.... PixiePirate Work/Jobs 5 10-21-2004 02:28 PM
old fading colour image -- advice, suggestions requested saltfish Image Help 4 07-21-2004 07:09 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved