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Seeking Help/Tutorials On Flier Design...

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  #1  
Old 04-10-2004, 04:39 PM
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rnbluvva rnbluvva is offline
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Seeking Help/Tutorials On Flier Design...

Hi!

I'm new to the forums and was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction..

I am wondering where one would start in trying to design fliers/posters. I am just learning Photoshop and have the Katrin Eismann book and have been working through that. I've also done other tutorials from here and other places and am comfortable with layers, blending modes, selections etc. I'd like to learn to do the more artful blends that are used in flier, cd and sticker design and things of that nature.

I would like to learn how to do those neat, texturized and blended backgrounds/images and interesting and more avant guarde type creations.

Examples of the type of work I'd like to learn how to do are at the following links:

http://www.bddesign.net/portfolio/July13.jpg
http://www.bddesign.net/portfolio/feb24.jpg
http://www.bddesign.net/portfolio/bu...ng-sticker.gif

Thanks for any hints or tips you can give.

I was also wondering if I would have to export the image parts of deisgns to Quark Xpress to send them to the printer or if Printing shops can take PSD files to work with.

Kind regards,
Natalie

Last edited by rnbluvva; 04-10-2004 at 05:09 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2004, 05:49 PM
Hunter Hunter is offline
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While this site offers no tutorials, it does give examples of current club flyers for New York and San Francisco: www.flyercity.com
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2004, 02:12 AM
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rnbluvva rnbluvva is offline
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Thanks for that link!

Great fliers and good for inspiration.

If anyone knows of a website or board that teaches how to do this sort of thing, please let me know.

I just want to know if they use masking techniques and plugins to get those rough, crackled type looks ... and how to blend artistically and stuff like that.

Thanks
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Old 04-11-2004, 04:57 AM
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Flora Flora is offline
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Hi Natalie,

The only place offering a tutorial on Flyers creation (and free software to boot!) I found, is here

They don't mention Photoshop, but once you see how it can be done, you can use Photoshop to do it... hope this can help...

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Old 04-11-2004, 09:02 AM
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Rexx Rexx is offline
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Hi Natalie,

I think what you're looking for is
The Photoshop 7 WOW! Book by Jack Davis.

Check it out.



PS: He may already have updated it to CS; I don't know.
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2004, 01:24 PM
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Chip Hildreth Chip Hildreth is offline
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About the printing issue...

To a degree it depends on the the printer you use but we've found that Acrobat PDF files at actual output size get the job done most of the time. We have a magazine we do ads for though that will not accept a PDF under any circumstances... go figure.
When we produce flyers we typically do the imaging work in Photoshop, that is, the sizing, color correction, compositing, etc. Depending on who we are sending it to, we then add the type with Illustrator, outline it, convert to EPS and then layout the signature (1-up, 2-up, 4-up, etc.) in Quark. Consider that if you use bleeds they will have to trim the edges and you need to know how they will be cutting it to make the signature compatible. Make sure you 'Collect for output' and include the fonts. It doesn't hurt to save the page as an EPS and send it too, again, make sure the font files go with it.
If you do everything in Photoshop, which is totally practical, make sure the final image is actual printed size and send them a flattened TIF. No need for font files. Don't use JPEGS at all, convert them to TIF first thing.
If it's going be printed on an offset press, work in CMYK. You will still experience color variations though because color printing hasn't fully made the transition from art to science. Color management is good and we use it for all our digital output, but going from desktop to offset press still includes a lot of variables beyond your control. Make sure you have a good, knowledgable print sales person and proof, proof, proof.
Most printers with a good prep department can handle practically any file you send them but the more you know about what they prefer, the more money you will save on prep. If you don't want to deal with the finishing issues, skip making the signature and have them do it, much easier for everyone but will cost you about and hour of prep time.

Ps. The style you're going for is very cool.
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Old 04-11-2004, 07:45 PM
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rnbluvva rnbluvva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flora
Hi Natalie,

The only place offering a tutorial on Flyers creation (and free software to boot!) I found, is here

They don't mention Photoshop, but once you see how it can be done, you can use Photoshop to do it... hope this can help...


Flora,

Thanks for the link.

Looks like that is a 30 day fee trial of the software, but I think that the tutorials may be helpful.

I am seeking to use a combination of Photoshop 7 and Quark Xpress for the layouts.

Thanks for the useful info.

Nat
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2004, 07:51 PM
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rnbluvva rnbluvva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexx
Hi Natalie,

I think what you're looking for is
The Photoshop 7 WOW! Book by Jack Davis.

Check it out.



PS: He may already have updated it to CS; I don't know.
Hi Rexx,

I have had my eye on that book for some time. I'm trying to get a used copy of it (I have PS7). I also am looking for a used copy of a book called "The Art of Photoshop" by Daniel Giordan.

I guess my general questions are:
1.) Do I do the blending and all texured image work in PS 7 at 300-400dpi and then place them in my Quark document.
2.) Should all font work be done in Quark Xpress so that they are vector images?
3.) Where could I go to learn more about ouput for print. I think I need to learn about working with CMYK, bleeds and color separations.

Thanks again,
Nat
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2004, 08:03 PM
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rnbluvva rnbluvva is offline
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Chip,

Thanks for all that valuable info.

Do most printers accept PDF files for output for things like CD layouts, fliers, posters etc? Is it just the magazine printing that you have had difficulty with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Hildreth
Depending on who we are sending it to, we then add the type with Illustrator, outline it, convert to EPS and then layout the signature (1-up, 2-up, 4-up, etc.) in Quark. Consider that if you use bleeds they will have to trim the edges and you need to know how they will be cutting it to make the signature compatible. Make sure you 'Collect for output' and include the fonts. It doesn't hurt to save the page as an EPS and send it too, again, make sure the font files go with it.
Is there an advantage to doing the text in Illustrator as opposed to going straight to Quark to do it?

I have been reading lately, that Adobe InDesign has some advantages over Quark. Do you know anything about this or is it a matter or personal preference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Hildreth
If you do everything in Photoshop, which is totally practical, make sure the final image is actual printed size and send them a flattened TIF. No need for font files. Don't use JPEGS at all, convert them to TIF first thing.
If it's going be printed on an offset press, work in CMYK. You will still experience color variations though because color printing hasn't fully made the transition from art to science. Color management is good and we use it for all our digital output, but going from desktop to offset press still includes a lot of variables beyond your control. Make sure you have a good, knowledgable print sales person and proof, proof, proof.Most printers with a good prep department can handle practically any file you send them but the more you know about what they prefer, the more money you will save on prep. If you don't want to deal with the finishing issues, skip making the signature and have them do it, much easier for everyone but will cost you about and hour of prep time.
Thanks for that advice. I was wondering if BMP or TIF were both acceptable as they are both non-lossy formats. Is there a preference for using TIF by most printig co's.

Would you happen to know where I can get standard layout measurement guides for fliers, posters, CD's and other types of documents that include the bleed? Is this something I would have to get from the printer I am using or is there an industry standard?

One more thing... sorry if this is a totally ignorant questions: what is an offset press? Are there different kinds of presses?

Thanks for all your insight.

Nat
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  #10  
Old 04-12-2004, 12:51 PM
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Chip Hildreth Chip Hildreth is offline
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First I should state that I'm a photographer with a long time interest in graphic arts, not a designer; I married my Art Director who is also my favorite designer and business partner so... think of what I write as educated but not expert, she's the pro but this stuff frequently baffles her too.

First Question: Do most printers accept PDF files for output for things like CD layouts, fliers, posters etc? Is it just the magazine printing that you have had difficulty with?
We have sent work to newspapers, fine art printers, magazine publishers, big print companies, small print shops and other design agencies. They are all different in what they PREFER. Most are sophisticated enough to work with nearly anything you give them but the more they have to do to set it up their preferred way, the more they charge you.
PDF's are the closest thing to a universal translator we have right now and barring some ocaisional quirkiness they get the job done with most printers digital or offset. Speaking of quirkiness, Quark is practically universal with printing companies and works just about as well but you have to be aware of some, well... quirks. For instance, let's say you have a piece with the Futura Typeface in it and you decide to make some of it bold. You have two ways to do that, you can select a futura bold typeface from the list if you have it or, you can click the little 'B' in the type properties panel. If you clicked the 'B", the printer's version will look different than yours... maybe, depending on the output device they used. Like I said, quirky. Transparency support is also tricky in quark, sometimes its a snap, others its trial and error; depends mostly on the image file types, how they were saved and the previews they use.
I like Illustrator mainly because I know it better but its best when working with a single page. Quark excells at multipage documents with flowing bodies of text.

Question number next: Is there an advantage to doing the text in Illustrator as opposed to going straight to Quark to do it?
Lots of body text, use Quark... decorative type and piece-meal text, use Illustrator and convert it to outlines.
Type is vector-like but still its own little format and you have to have the font files installed to print it... unless it's in a PDF, which is why PDF is cool. In Illustrator you can lay down type over graphics and you still need the fonts installed to print it, BUT... you can convert it to outlines and it becomes a true vector graphic like anything else you draw with Illustrator. With outlined type you not only don't need the fonts to print it anymore, you can manipulate it any way you want without losing output quality. You don't want to outline type until you're sure the copy is final though because once it's in vector format it each character is an independent object and it's tough to add or remove letters or words. You don't want to outline lots of small type, it causes postscript errors.
I used InDesign some and thought it was a good program, seemed more flexible but Beth, my partner, is a Quark die-hard so Indesign doesn't see much action around here. If I was designing flyers, 2 or 4 to a page, I would use Illustrator for the layout.

Regarding TIF versus BMP; TIF is the generally accepted standard for raster (bitmap) images in graphic arts. Advanced TIF formats, and there are a few of them, support layers, transparency, previews, metadata and other useful stuff. BMP is an early Microsoft creation and doesn't have the enhancements that TIF does. Image file formats are a deep subject but a little web searching will turn up good explanations of each format's benefits and applications. Try this link, and check through the whole site:
http://www.designer-info.com/master....le_formats.htm

I don't know that there are any actual controlled standards for document layout but you should check the support sections of Adobe's and Quark's websites for user contributed templates. I know Adobe has a bunch of 'em.

There is no reason why anyone would know about offset presses until they actually have trouble with one.
This is getting blurry these days but when you hear someone mention four color process or process color (it doesn't have to be 4 color) they usually mean printing done with ink on an offset press. It's called offset baecause the ink is offset from a plate to a rubber blanket and then to the paper. Search 'offset lithography' if you care to know more... but all you really need to know is that offset printing is good for long print runs 2000 pieces and up. Digital, as in toner or inkjet, printing is more practical for runs under 1000. Neither is very economical in the 1000 to 2000 range so it's a toss up. There are lots of ways to print these days and lots of variations. When someone says press they are usually talking about offset and there are indeed lots of different types of offset presses.

So much for being concise. See? If I were an actual expert I could've said all that with a lot less typing. I hope it helps you go in the right direction, As long as you keep searching, asking and learning, you'll be able to do anything.
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