Image Help - - What am I missing?

Doc · #1 06-14-2004, 11:16 PM

I've been asked to try and save this old photo and I seem to be missing something. I just can't seem to get rid of the pixelated look after the touch up. And, I need it to look as real as possible for the final draft. I have added some things to the photo as well, as requested - a background and a more colorful drink and a bird. And, I plan on making the bird a bit smaller and adding some subtle shadows to make everything look more real. But, how to I clean up that pixelated thing in the skin? I will post a copy of what I have so far, in my next thread. If anyone can give me a tip, or tell me what I'm missing, please help. I am using Photoshop and ImageReady CS. I am still learning about saving web images, so these here look awful now that I've shrunk them down. Hopefully, it will still give you an idea of what it looks like. Thank you.

Doc · #2 06-14-2004, 11:29 PM

Here is a copy of my second draft of this photo. It still doesn't look right when printed. I used clone and patch and heal to bring out the guy's face. But, now it looks a little cartoonish. And, I had to clone the hat in where it was washed out. But, I have no idea how to paint in new curly hair where it is washed out over her. I put in a flower to cover it up. But, is there a way to fix her hair? And, is there any way to bring back the realism without just turning down the color? They want it bright and colorful. Any tips, hints or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Gary Richardson · #3 06-15-2004, 12:12 AM

Hi Doc, if a picture is pixellated, it's because there is'nt sufficient number of pixels to give the definition you require. How big is your image ie. how many pixels wide, and how many pixels high, and how large do you want the image to physically be ie. how wide in inches, and how high. To get a good print out you usually need a resolution of 200-300 pixels per inch, so to see how big you can print your image, divide the overall pixel width and height by 200 and this will give you the max size in inches you can print.

Unfortunately, if your original does'nt have enough pixels there is nothing you can do to make more.

Doc · #4 06-16-2004, 03:59 AM

The original photo is only 3" tall by 2 1/2" wide and it was scanned at 600 ppi. I am trying to finish with a 5x7 or maybe even 8x10. It seems like there are enough pixels. It's just that the skin became all splotchy with reds and yellows after I adjusted it. -like the skin tone separated or something. I just got a request to make them both more tan, so maybe adjusting the color will help some. But, isn't there a way to just smooth out the skin a little, and make the colors blend more smoothly?

I am playing around with Digital Sho, Gem, and Roc. But, so far they only seem to adjust the contrast and brightness and color just the same as the features in photoshop. Thanks for helping, Gary. Cool pic of Gargamel

Doug Nelson · #5 06-16-2004, 06:58 AM

I'm sure this isn't the case, but I thought I'd ask: are you using JPG as your native format? About the only reason I could see for that type of damaged to be introduced after scanning is via JPG compression. There should be plenty of image data at that resolution for what you described.

Doc · #6 06-16-2004, 07:24 AM

Oh, my. Yes, I have the original as a jpg. When I export from the scanner, there are only a few options. Which other format should I be using? All I have read about photoshop so far has lead me to believe that for a photograph, jpg is best. The only other formats I'm aware of are gif and png. I came across a vague reference to some jpg 2000 the other day. But, I still need to look into that. Is that what you mean? Could you please tell me how I should be saving these photos and which format to use?

I feel like a real dunce. But, I knew I was missing something vital. Thanks, and could you please tell me more?

Doc · #7 06-16-2004, 07:37 AM

I just checked the scanning software and I see that files can be exported to something called .TIFF and there is one that says, uncompressed .TIFF. I imagine that this is what I am supposed to use. I am just totally unfamiliar with .TIFF so I didn't take notice of it before. Please, let me know if I have a clue. And, maybe if anyone knows a website where I can read up about photo file formats and stuff? Maybe this site, huh? I'll check.

brandonx49 · #8 06-16-2004, 07:51 AM

hi Doc,

If find that a JPEG with little commpression is not much different in quality from a TIFF except that TIFF's are much larger in file size. If you are using automated mode with you scanner you might want to try the manual way that way if the scan is being auto-saved as a JPEG at let's say 60% you can stop this and save with little compression thus not any image quality in the save.

Another factor might be the quality of your scanner. You could always take it to a scanning kiosk at a local photo shop or walmart and have it scanned at a high resoluton and better scanner to CD.

Hope this helps,
Brad

Gary Richardson · #9 06-16-2004, 04:10 PM

One of the troubles with jpg is it compresses each time you save your image, so the compression effect is commulative. You may have transferred it ok, but if you have worked on the image and saved it several times then the image will degrade. Take a copy of the original scan and save it with one of the non lossy compression formats like Tiff or PSD and then work on it. When you have finished working on your image, if you must have it in jpg format then save a copy of your final image as jpg.

Doug Nelson · #10 06-16-2004, 08:18 PM

Avoid JPG as long as possible. Conversion to JPG for web use or emailing or any other purpose should be the final step. Converting to JPG literally destroys image data (as you've discovered). Stick with TIF or PSD for scanning and editing.

Doc · #11 06-17-2004, 12:47 AM

Unfortunately, I don't have time to ask for the original to scan it again. I have been using a cheap hand-me-down scanner -visioneer onetouch 5800- and scanning through Paperport 7. Paperport saves scans as some .max file, whatever that is. And, the.max files are very small. So, it looks like I got way ahead of myself and I should have taken more time on the scan. Thanks for the idea to have them scanned at a kiosk, Brandonx49. I will look into that. I am also, in the furture, going to try taking a digital photo of the originals and work with that. But, first I need to learn about the proper lighting for that sort of thing. And, my camera seems to take photos in jpg, so I'll have to find a way to change that I suppose.

I tried to export the original .max scan file to .tiff, but it wasn't any better than the jpg, even though the file size was much bigger. And, photoshop won't read the .max file. So, it seems the problem is the way I scanned it and that .max thing. In the future I think I can scan using photoshop's import feature and keep them as .psd files. Thanks for the tips Doug, Gary. That should help, until I can get better equipment.

Could you guys tell me about the software and hardware you personally prefer and use for scanning? What other software do you use/recommend, besides photoshop, for digital editing and restoration?

Also, if any of you do this (photo editing, resoration) for a living, would you please tell me all about your profession? The reason I ask, is that I love working with digital photos, and I am hoping that I could someday make a living doing this. So, I would like to know what sorts of employment might exist doing photo editing and restoration, and if I can ever expect to make any money doing it. Right now, I just do it for friends and family for fun. And, I love how people light up when they see their new photos for the first time. Everyone so far has been so amazed at what I can do, they're urging me to start charging and make it a business. In your opinion, is this sort of thing possible, or would I just go broke chasing dreams? If not a business, then what sort of employment could I aim for? Are there jobs for anyone with the talent, or do I need to go back and get a degree in graphic design?

Thank you all very much for your help.

Doc · #12 06-17-2004, 06:23 PM

Well, it is time to say goodbye to this one. I finished up what I had, and got it turned in in time for the wife and daughter to find a nice frame and wrap it up for Father's day. They were very pleased and had some great things to say. That's a relief. I, of course, being a perfectionist, am not totally content with the final draft. I would like to scan the original again and start all over. But, time waits for no one, I suppose, on to the next job.

I thought y'all might like to see what I ended up with. I got rid of the bird alltogether; it was just distracting. And, she came out a bit orange in the tan, but she wanted it that way. This photo posted here is shrunk down to just under 100K so it really doesn't do it justice. But, for curiosity's sake, here it is.

Again, thanks for all your help everybody. I would still like to hear from you about those questions I asked about the business side of things. Maybe somebody could just direct me to another thread where these things have already been answered?

Doc · #13 06-17-2004, 06:28 PM

oops. I forgot to upload the photo. Here you go.

Gary Richardson · #14 06-18-2004, 12:47 AM

Hi Doc, hard to judge your final image, as its posted a little small, however, it looks better for losing the parrot. As for your questions about business, alas I'm an amateur like you, and do it just for the fun of it. There are however several threads on this topic if you do a bit of looking around on RP.

Vikki · #15 06-18-2004, 04:31 AM

I only have a few minutes (otherwise I would try to answer some of your business questions), but I just wanted to mention that you can scan from within Photoshop, and don't have to go through Paperport. You can then save the file in a number of different formats. In Photoshop, on the main menu, choose FILE, IMPORT. You should see your scanner listed. Select your scanner, and it will bring up the scanning window. You don't need to use Paperport at all.