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  #11  
Old 10-28-2004, 02:45 AM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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Hi Ro,

I'll be more impressed with your answer when I see you do what you suggest on the whole picture.

Of course all things are possible theoretically. If, you had another picture of the boy, If, you had another picture of the mother, If, you had another picture of the carousel horse, and if all these other pictures were lit similarly to the image you wish to restore.

But this is not likely to be the case, and using someone else's face on the boy, is not likely to be un-noticed by the mother who knows her own sons face intimately.

But I'll be happy to be proved wrong, so go ahead and have a go, and please post your results.
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2004, 07:00 AM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Hi Gary,
As in all things in life, and in a good photo, there should not be too much black and white - but a whole lot of grays. As such, I was disagreeing to the idea that..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Richardson
....you cannot truly sharpen an out of focus picture.
because that seems like putting up a brick wall. (OK, we could discuss "truly". Is a finite-pixel, finite-channel-level, jpeg-compressed, digital file a true representation of a nice kid's face?)
As to needing another picture, that depends. I did a quick fix on the text and there was no other picture. I could do a pretty good fix on the horse, because it's full of straight lines and plain colors - and because there would be no horse's mother to worry about.
And the face? Have you ever noticed how a bad photo on the screen looks much worse than the orignal in you hand. We all have a great ability to see through the 'noise' (in fact, adding noise is a good sharpening trick). If we look at the blurred face at 100 or 200% zoom it's real bad, but look at a smaller version and it's much clearer - so (all?) we need to make the zoomed version look like we see the small version.

Like you said....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Richardson
Of course all things are possible theoretically....
but that doesn't imply that all things are impossible in practice (although it would take some time!).

Once again, apologies to keepemcomin for the hijack.

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  #13  
Old 10-28-2004, 09:06 AM
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vidanse vidanse is offline
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a quick attempt

I'm a newbie to this and this is my first attempt to reply to threads like this.

I use a sharpening program designed by Bruce Fraser called PhotoKit Sharpener. I'm still learning to use it but it works wonderfully for work I have at the studio.

It has three levels of sharpening and does it all on layers. Capture sharpening, Creative and Output. Not sure I used the correct ones for this photo but thought I'd give it a try.

Vicki
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  #14  
Old 10-29-2004, 02:04 AM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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Ro,

I'm not in disagreement with your ideas in principal, merely in the application of them in practise. What you are suggesting may be possible (I still hold some reservations on that), but until I see an example, I will remain sceptical.

vidanse,

Looks OK, but hard to tell, your posted image is too small to judge. (This proves Ro's point about things looking sharper the smaller they are.)
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  #15  
Old 10-29-2004, 03:07 AM
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kiska kiska is offline
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Flora.... oh F-L-O-O-O-R-A

[*]Created a Shadow Mask, (Ctrl+Alt+~= Luminosity Mask > Ctrl+I = Invert = Shadow Mask), copied it on its own Layer (Ctrl+J

Flora, could you elaborate on this??
When I copied the invert to its own layer, it was kind of a funky color. Correct? Am I supposed to change the blend mode??
Do I add a mask, or is the selection itself a 'mask'?
This one's new to me, can you tell?
Thanks
kiska

NEVERMIND! On my mac, to invert a selection, it's SHIFT+command+I. Command(ctrl)+I inverts the whole image. That's the funky colors.Thanks.

Last edited by kiska; 10-29-2004 at 08:15 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-29-2004, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Richardson
I'm not in disagreement with your ideas in principal, merely in the application of them in practise. What you are suggesting may be possible (I still hold some reservations on that), but until I see an example, I will remain sceptical.
Hi Gary,
I agree. Although I it seems I'm just a little less sceptical!

Hi kiska,
I know you asked Flora , but I'll chip in here:
When you press Ctrl+Alt+~ you are actually making a selection. When you make a selection manually, you see things as being fully selected or not selected at all - as shown by the 'marching ants'. However, in this selection the lighter parts (more luminosity) are fully selected and the darker as less selected. It may seem that the 'ants' have lost their way!
The Ctrl+I is a command to invert the selection. So now the dark parts are more selected and the light parts less so.
Now the Ctrl+J is the normal duplicate layer command. Which, (as most people first discover by accident!) will copy only the selected parts to a new layer.
Putting that all together, you should now have a new layer showing the darker parts of the original and transparency where there were some lighter parts.

OK, now?

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  #17  
Old 10-29-2004, 07:57 AM
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kiska kiska is offline
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Thanks Ro, I understand selecting luminosity, invert, copy.Flora called this a 'mask'. Is that it, or do you add a mask to it. Do you leave the blend mode normal or not??
kiska

AHA! To invert the selection, on a mac, it's SHIFT+command+I. I was omitting the SHIFT, therefore funky colors as the whole image was inverted. Sorry.

Last edited by kiska; 10-29-2004 at 08:10 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2004, 10:34 AM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiska
AHA! To invert the selection, on a mac, it's SHIFT+command+I. I was omitting the SHIFT, therefore funky colors as the whole image was inverted. Sorry.
Ooops! (I just copied without thinking, I'm sorry)
It's not a PC / Mac thing - to invert a selection on a PC it is Shift + Ctrl + I .
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiska
I understand selecting luminosity, invert, copy. Flora called this a 'mask'. Is that it, or do you add a mask to it. Do you leave the blend mode normal or not??
The idea behind a selection and a mask is the same. However a mask is tied to a layer, but a selection applies anywhere until de-selected.
To illustrate (or to confuse completely) try this:
- Without anything select (command + D) duplicate the photo (command + J);
- On the duplicated layer make the luminosity selection (command + alt + ~) and invert the selection (shift + command + I - got it right now!);
- Click on the "add layer mask" button at the bottom of the channels palette;
- Turn off the original and you'll see the same result as you had using Flora's method, but now using a mask and not a copied selection.
(after this you can use "apply mask" and you arrive at exactly the same place as the other method - but now by the scenic route)

Usually Flora's method is better because when you are working on the "shadow" layer there is no possibility of some nearby lighter bits, that were hidden by the mask, messing things up.

As to blending, usually you'll just leave as normal - maybe lowering the opacity if you exagerated on the touch-up. Of course all the options are open.

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  #19  
Old 10-29-2004, 10:51 AM
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kiska kiska is offline
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I was wondering about the blend modes because I was getting funky colors when inverting. Now that i am SHIFTING SHIFTING SHIFTING the mode question is moot.
Thanks for comparing the shadow mask to a 'mask' mask. It helped the light to dawn.
kiska
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  #20  
Old 11-05-2004, 10:46 AM
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Balky Balky is offline
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Here is my try
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