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  #21  
Old 02-22-2005, 06:19 PM
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T Paul T Paul is offline
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I agree the lighting really caused the nose to look distorted, and was also surprised that they didn't make a correction in the lighting on the set...but sometimes those things just get overlooked and then they must rely on the retoucher to correct it.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2005, 12:08 AM
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Brooks Brooks is offline
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Of Noses and Highlights.

My ears were burning.
I just wanted to make a few comments about the shoot in question and how it all went down. First off, I want to clarify for those that didn't read both blog posts about these images, that the final retouched image was the image they first looked at and noticed what they felt was a large nose. This model does have a larger nose than your typical model, but is well known here in L.A. and works a lot. The lighting differences are obvious and there was no harsh highlight on that image to start with. The lighting looks almost exactly like you see it in the final retouched image. Only the shape of her nose, eyes and mouth were changed (only?). You get the idea.

After shooting a few rolls of film for the client, they all moved off set while I added some harder lights to better fit my style and shot one roll of 645 for myself. There was no one on set to notice anything strange about the lighting but me and I never did a polaroid. I just moved some lights and shot as fast as I could. I noticed that the light was just how I like it when I saw the film, but in this particular shot, made her nose a bit crooked looking. When I scanned it and did some light retouching on it for my book and site, I did a little better of a job than the one I decided to show on my blog. I felt it showed the differences in her two faces even more so I used it.

So, there was nothing for the client to notice on set or re-light. The client never even saw it. So William is way off base when he says I'm blaming the client for a problem I created. Does everyone around here assume that the people they are bagging on won't find out?

Thanks.

Last edited by Brooks; 03-02-2005 at 12:37 AM. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 03-02-2005, 10:57 AM
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Sorry to make your ears burn. Really just chose that picture as it was an excellent example of how photos change from what is reality to what is retouched reality, as well as some very impressive work.

Furthermore, it was a great example of how lighting alone can “retouch” and image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
Does everyone around here assume that the people they are bagging on won't find out?
It is a wonderful shot and a very lovely model, and I really never thought anyone was blaming anyone for anything, more so, just commenting on the outcome.

Thanks for taking the time to add the further description of the shoot.


~T

Last edited by T Paul; 03-02-2005 at 11:05 AM.
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  #24  
Old 03-02-2005, 11:20 AM
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My last sentence was more about William's final comment than anything else. it rubbed me the wrong way I guess, but I'm over it.
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  #25  
Old 03-05-2005, 07:45 AM
WilliamD WilliamD is offline
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[QUOTE=BrooksSo, there was nothing for the client to notice on set or re-light. The client never even saw it. So William is way off base when he says I'm blaming the client for a problem I created. Does everyone around here assume that the people they are bagging on won't find out?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Glad to hear you're over it.

These images on your site were linked to in this thread. They were discussed in a 'before & after retouching' context. If you chose to light the model in a way that exagerated the shape of her nose, shoot the pictures for yourself, retouch them for your book & then put up an unretouched pic in your blog, as a comparison to retouched pictures taken in a different light - well, expect someone to pick up on it. Don't be surprised if they then get the wrong end of the stick either.

You seem to have intentionally displayed images that appear to show an extream level of retouching, but in fact don't represent what has happened on this job - perhaps you made that clear somewhere in your blog, if so, sorry I've misrepresented you & please excuse me for not having read your whole blog, but I find life's too short for blogs!. Otherwise I don't know (or care) why you have done it - perhaps you felt it would make your blog more interesting....

Having a nose retouched is no big deal. I have a cover out at the moment where the client decided to 'slim' the nose - I'd retouched the shot, but they decided they wanted a slimmer nose, well, it's their cover isn't it?
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  #26  
Old 03-05-2005, 11:00 PM
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Raaar! Fft Fft! I was over it, but...

I'm very sorry Mr. William. I'm just a little guy out here in L.A. and us little people sometimes like to blog. It must be nice to have a life full of past times that no one would consider trivial. You're a super star! Some may say that life is too short to post to forums, but I doubt you would take them too seriously.

You are right. You didn't read my blog to get an understanding of the story behind the images. You just decided to make a personal statement about my relationship with my client without reading the facts first. I guess you don't have time to gather facts before you state your opinion. I mean, life is too short for all that reading, right? I never stated that the two shots were before and after shots. I only stated that they were from the same shoot and I clearly stated that the lighting was different and that the first shot that I posted was something I did after the shoot. Not to mention that the two blog posts were two and a half months apart.

Regardless of the difference in lighting, it is obvious that she looks like two completely different people and I was just pointing that out on my personal blog that no one was forced to read or reference. My regular readers made comments on the two posts and that was that. I don't have a scan of the final shot that was used before the retouching so I told the story with the best material I had.

Obviously, I'm not the beauty photographer that you are. I probably never will be, but I would never make personal statements about another photographer in an open forum without provocation. The story on my end has never changed yet you're still saying that I created a problem and blamed my client. I can tell that English is not your third language, so what gives?
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:45 AM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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Now, now ladies, put your handbags away.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2005, 10:04 AM
WilliamD WilliamD is offline
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Yawn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
I mean, life is too short for all that reading, right?
Got time to read? Read this thread. See. It ain't about you. Surprised????

2 pages on your site were linked to. Put stuff on the web, people will comment on it, & my comments were within the context of this thread - not your blog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
I never stated that the two shots were before and after shots.
If you read my first post you'd know I didn't say that either - in fact I acknowledged that point myself - but the thread is about altering people by retouching, what gets done, why it gets done, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
Regardless of the difference in lighting, it is obvious that she looks like two completely different people
Which is where we differ, to me it looks like the lighting has changed her face as much as the retouch. But of course I haven't seen the well lit shot that your client started with, so for now I'll just take your word on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooks
Obviously, I'm not the beauty photographer that you are. I probably never will be, but I would never make personal statements about another photographer in an open forum without provocation. The story on my end has never changed yet you're still saying that I created a problem and blamed my client. I can tell that English is not your third language, so what gives?
Re-read that first post: "Seems to me" is a pretty simple phrase, it indicates I'm stating an opinion based on the information I have - i.e. it's not a personal attack. I 'seem to recall' your blog was blaming someone (not the client??) for pointing out the model had a big nose. My apologies if that wasn't the client, & I have in some way misrepresented your photographer-client relationship.

If you are so worried by a few strangers discussing stuff you've put on the web then just don't post it there, nobody forces you to!
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  #29  
Old 03-06-2005, 04:19 PM
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I get it now

Sorry for all the confusion. I guess It's all about the context that this thread has made it. It has nothing to do with me even though it was linking to me and discussing my relationship with my client. (the rest of this post is moving to email so we won't bore everyone else). Oh, and Gary, I'll swing whatever I need to to defend myself, wouldn't you? My handbag is so full of sarcasm, I can hardly lift it. :-)
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  #30  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:54 AM
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Gary Richardson Gary Richardson is offline
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Meow, meow, meow.
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