Color Management: Color problems

[angelstudio]

Hi

I'am David from Portugal, 3d Artist and work as photographer to.

At moment i have a big problem hope to get some help from here.


I shoot with a Canon 40D in RGB.
I have my monitor calibrated with X-Rite.
Use the ICC profile in CS4.

My settings:

Working Spaces

RGB: (Profile from x-rite)
CMYK : U.S Web Coated (sowp) v2
Gray: Gray gamma 2.2
Spot: Dot Gain 15%


Color Management Policies

RGB : Convert to wronking RGB
CMYK:Preserv Embedded Profiles
Gray: COnvert to wronking Gray



Now , my problem is: i finish my edit , mt photo look's fine, but when i save it look darker and more Yellow.

Any suggestion?

Thanks

David

[TommyO]

Originally Posted by angelstudio

Use the ICC profile in CS4.

Not sure what you meant here. "ICC profile" is a generic term... you'd need to reference a specific ICC profile.... then explain what you mean by "use in CS4".

Originally Posted by angelstudio

My settings:

Working Spaces

RGB: (Profile from x-rite)

This is a problem. You should not be using your monitor profile as your working color space. You should be using a standard profile such as AdobeRGB, sRG, ProPhotoRGB.... preferably AdobeRGB, as it is more popular amongst photographers.

(Note: since you do a lot of 3D art work, you may need to work in one space for 3D art, another for photography. The space you work in is generally whatever is most popular in your industry. Your choice of a working color space just helps you produce work that would be consistent with your peers when viewed in a color managed application.)

Simply stated, the monitor profile is designed to add/subtract a little from color values stored within an image so that they will look correct when displayed on the screen. It compensates for problems with the monitor. This is designed to take place on your PC only, and never be embedded into the edited image.

Originally Posted by angelstudio

Color Management Policies

RGB : Convert to working RGB

Again, this is a problem since your working space is set wrong. It will result in a double-conversion of your colors.... once when imported, then again when sending to the screen. This will make is virtually impossible to get correct colors in your final output.

Once you correct your working space, you should be able to leave this as is.

[angelstudio]

TommyO, Thanks for your reply, now i understand i think....

So i must use AdobeRGB as my working color space, and at the end convert and save as Srgb for web for exemple.

Last question: When saving, is prefered to Embed color Profile or not?

"Use the ICC profile in CS4" means that i set the iCC profile generated by X-Rite in CS4 as my working color space. ( wrong now i know...)

Thanks again....user error...like always

[Pictus]

Originally Posted by angelstudio

Last question: When saving, is prefered to Embed color Profile or not?

Always embed color Profile.

[angelstudio]

hi Again....
still have the same problem...

AdobeRGB color space, etc..etc... all done..

After save as jpg color, open the image and look very different....

i leave a link to the file...hope someone can help

http://rapidshare.com/files/38847429...9_low.psd.html

[pixelzombie]

i d/l the image and saved as a jpg, when i open it up i can drag onto the original file and it is the same, there is no change..i did notice that the file you posted is untagged...

[angelstudio]

i think the problem is windows viewer ...if i open the saved jpg in Ps look's fine...

[Pictus]

Right colors only in color aware applications + image with profile...
So, good colors only in Photoshop, Bridge, Fast Picture Viewer.
Faststone more or less less less...
Acdsee good but not perfect...

[angelstudio]

Pictus, sei que vais entender, sim isso é certo...apesar de ter o monitor calibrado o icc profile apenas funciona em aplicações com gestão de perfil de cor , mesmo browsers como firefox não funciona , por momentos fiquei assustado o trabalho é para um catálogo de moda...não posso falhar de forma alguma...
Abraço

David

[TommyO]

David,
You are correct. Color managed applications should not have the problem. Unfortunately, Windows' viewer is not color managed.

If you are converting to sRGB prior to saving for the web, you may consider the previous suggestion... working in sRGB when doing your 3D graphic work. There is really no reason to work in one color space when your eventual target is another color space. Doing so will simply cause you to go through the proof-modify process too many times in the end.... just more time spent doing unnecessary tasks. There is nothing wrong with working in the sRGB color space when your work requires it. Many professionals do so. AdobeRGB is simply more common among photographers and their work environment.

Embedding the profile has two purposes. One, as a way of informing the recipient of what your intent was. The embedded profile gives them confidence it was saved correctly, and in what color space you intend for it to be viewed. Two, it provides a consistent means for their color managed application to convert it to a different color space if needed. The receiving application can convert it properly when the profile is embedded. If not embedded, it must guess.

[Pictus]

Entendo, é uma questão chata...
Aqui abaixo um apanhado de links que julgo interessantes, bom para ler quando estiver com a cuca fresca

Practical guidelines and references for digital photographers
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/WGuidelines.pdf
Color Management, Camera Profiles, & Working Spaces
http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/digika...ne/005591.html

SRGB x Adobe RGB
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...obeRGB1998.htm

ProPhoto or ConPhoto ?
http://www.jeremydaalder.com/singleA...hp?articleID=6

Also look at this http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB3/v...5577&p=1480953

[TommyO]

Det vore trevligt om alla skulle tala engelska.

It simply helps everyone else enjoy the forum. Not everyone speaks Portuguese (or Swedish, or all the other languages from our readers).

[angelstudio]

Sorry TommyO, you are right.....and yes everyone can speak english....

[cliffbennett]

[QUOTE=TommyO;266706]David,

There is really no reason to work in one color space when your eventual target is another color space. Doing so will simply cause you to go through the proof-modify process too many times in the end.... just more time spent doing unnecessary tasks. There is nothing wrong with working in the sRGB color space when your work requires it. Many professionals do so. AdobeRGB is simply more common among photographers and their work environment.

/QUOTE]

Sorry, TommyO but I must respecfully disagree, both on editing in the intended target space and in which space to use.

If you are working only for the web, you could work in sRGB. You can make a case for doing so because you know exactly what you're getting.

But the sRGB profile is still a monitor profile, albeit an artificial one, intended to standardize for "average" monitors.

As such, it is neither gray balanced or perceptually uniform -- which means for instance you can't make adjustments by grabbing a point on the adjustment curve to lighten midtones without shifting color.

The gamut is also smaller than most printing profiles and tends to clip reds.

There are reasons many professional photographers and graphic designers use Adobe RGB (1998) or ProPhoto.

As Charles E. Gardner points out in a pretty good article here ( http://super.nova.org/DPR/ColorManagement/ ) Adobe RGB (1998) has a good gamut for printing, and doesn't waste gamut space on colors that won't reproduce on a printing press.

Some who intend to print on higher gamut printers will want to edit in ProPhoto RGB. I guess some other tutorials on this site recommend that, especially if you're using Camera Raw.

There are other editing profiles that have balanced gray and perceptual uniformity, but Adobe RGB (1998) and ProPhotoRGB come installed with the Adobe suites and let you be pretty standardized.

The whole point is you want to keep one editing or working file in a good space and then convert copies as necessary -- i.e., to sRGB for web use, to U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 or some other CMYK profile for printing.

So you let the computer and software fix the color for each use and still have your original for future editing if necessary.

Also...

never save working files as JPEG, because it is a "lossy" compression. Every time you save, it re-compresses and loses more image information. Saving once or twice at "highest" or number 12 compression is usually not noticeable for web use, but many saves can degrade the image.

And you never want to save JPEG for print use.

For a working file, one should keep a TIFF file with LZW compression -- it will be almost as small and will not lose clarity or build up image artifacts. If you aren't concerned with disk space, then keeping a Photoshop native file is even better.

[andrewrodney]

Using sRGB in no way guarantees a match, even a close match between the OP’s calibrated display while viewing that data and what he or others will see on a non ICC aware browser. Its the best lowest common dominator color space for posting images to the web but that’s about it. Those viewing the sRGB images in non ICC aware browsers, using wide gamut displays will also see pretty awful previews. The sRGB spec (its a theoretical color space) is based on a CRT display circa 1993. So even if you use sRGB in non color managed applications, all bets are off in terms of any kind of match. It might be close, might not, your mileage may vary.

In terms of RGB working spaces in Adobe products, see: http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdf...p_colspace.pdf

[mushmush]

Thank you for all who answered- this was a nice refresher. I'd say the OP found some good answers from a spectrum of knowledgeable and sharing people.
Thanks!