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nadaman 06-21-2011 10:53 AM

best calibration for monitor when editing for web
 
Hi folks, I have to edit a bunch of images that will be displayed on the web only.
What is the best white point and luminance settings to calibrate my monitor to?
Presume 2.2 gamma.

Equipment: iMac, Lacie 324 monitor with Blue Eye calibration, & CS4. Although I'm far from being an expert, I do have a reasonable understanding of color management.

I've been doing some research on this one and here's what I've found:
Use CS4's Save for Web to remove profile, as untagged sRGB is best color space for all browsers in general.
Gary Ballard visually explains things quite well as to the reasons.
The link below is to his Web Browser Color Management Tutorial.

http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_...Gprofiles.html
Quote:

If you are on a Mac, I highly recommend you re-calibrate your monitor to 2.2 monitor gamma, D65 6500.
And this is another link from Gary's page.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2026?viewlocale=en_US
Quote:

Unless you have a color management expert instructing you otherwise, select a 2.2 gamma and a D65 white point.
Why D65 over D50?
Well, the D50 white point was all the rage among pre-press professionals 10 years ago, and you'd even find talk of D50 in advertising materials. Not so much anymore. D50 comes from a time when the dominant method of photo processing still involved paper, light tables, and viewing lamps. Now the emphasis on digital editing and Internet publishing makes the D65 native white point of modern displays a dominant factor.

I've recently got a profile for my printer from Andrew Rodney - which I highly recommend - and have been introduced to the idea of calibrating my monitor to a specific output. Figure the same could apply to web images to insure the best viewing on most high or low end monitors out there.
Your thoughts please.

andrewrodney 06-23-2011 09:19 AM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
The web is not color managed except for two browsers so all bets are off here. Best you can do is save out a document in sRGB and hope for the best. Trying to calibrate a display such that you think you are viewing your images properly for the web is kind of pointless due to these issues with browsers. Certainly calibrate to TRC gamma 2.2, there’s no reason not to on a Mac or Windows. But luminance and to a lesser degree white point (sure, D55 will work) are simply not going to get you anywhere in terms of seeing what other, non color managed users will see. Their displays are all over the map.

nadaman 06-23-2011 11:00 AM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Thanks for your reply.
Point taken, TRC gamma 2.2 is the most critical, luminance and white point not so much.

Tagged vs. untagged sRGB, is one better than the other? Most articles I've read favor untagged.

Speaking in generalities and understanding web browser color management issues, if I prepare my files using a color managed/calibrated display producing an image with a good dynamic range, could i say that this stands a better chance of showing reasonably well?

Is there anything else I should be aware of that could/might have my images hit this moving target a bit better?
Not looking for perfection but most professional sites I browse do have reasonable looking images - having no idea what the originals look like.

andrewrodney 06-23-2011 11:09 AM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Doesn’t hurt to tag them. The two web browsers will see it (or assume sRGB). Its only about 4K per image. If you were posting thousands of images, that could add up, that’s why some suggest not tagging.

nadaman 06-28-2011 09:23 AM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Thanks Andrew, I've decided to go with untagged. I have a LiveBooks website I'm updating with new photos and they recommend untagged sRGB so that the images will look the same on all browsers, PC and Mac.

Which brings me to another issue involving CS4 and "Working RGB" in the Color Settings dialog box.

Using CS4, photoshop is interpreting an untagged RGB file very differently and it seems to be based on the Working RGB Space chosen in the Color Settings dialog box.

Set Working RGB to Adobe 1998 in the Color Settings dialog box and open a untagged sRGB file. When compared to the original tagged sRGB file, I see that I've picked up a little red cast and perhaps a little contrast.
Set Working RGB to ProPhoto in the Color Settings dialog box and do the same thing.
The untagged sRGB file now displays these wild florescent colors that look no where near the tagged sRGB.

Yet the eye dropper tool confirms the color values have not changed.
The numbers are the same no matter the Working RGB setting.

Why?

andrewrodney 06-28-2011 10:12 AM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nadaman (Post 293756)
I have a LiveBooks website I'm updating with new photos and they recommend untagged sRGB so that the images will look the same on all browsers, PC and Mac.

Thatís not necessarily going to be the case, again due to browsers that donít understand color management.

Quote:

Using CS4, photoshop is interpreting an untagged RGB file very differently and it seems to be based on the Working RGB Space chosen in the Color Settings dialog box.
Untagged docís are assumed to be in the RGB working space you have setup in your color settings. Photoshop has to guess some color space for untagged data, thatís what it uses for its assumption. In your case, if Adobe RGB (1998) is loaded in the RGB working space, thatís what Photoshop assumes for all untagged RGB data.

nadaman 06-28-2011 01:01 PM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Re: working RGB color space: Thanks for clearing that up. I don't know if I could have found that answer very easily. Probably because I wouldn't know how to word it correctly to get a successful search. Or if it was in a book, it surely wouldn't be in the index.

Quote:

Thatís not necessarily going to be the case, again due to browsers that donít understand color management.
I've got 4 browsers open on my desktop - Safari, FireFox, Chrome, and Opera.
I also have CS4 open, displaying a tagged sRGB image.
The same image is displayed on each of the browsers. Safari & Firefox display the image pretty close to PS. Chrome and Opera have the image redder, more saturated, and with slightly more contrast.

With PS Working RGB set to Adobe 1998.......
duplicate the tagged sRGB and open in PS > assign profile > do not color manage. Add adjustment layers to this now untagged sRGB file and get it as close as you can to tagged version.

Flatten and load this altered untagged sRGB to the 4 browsers and image now looks the same not only in all browsers but it matches the PS file as well.

Its not perfect but good enough considering the various monitors that could exist out there. But it does offer a way of taming (at least the color part) of the wild wild web.
n.

andrewrodney 06-28-2011 01:33 PM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nadaman (Post 293768)
I've got 4 browsers open on my desktop - Safari, FireFox, Chrome, and Opera.
I also have CS4 open, displaying a tagged sRGB image.
The same image is displayed on each of the browsers.

Right, on YOUR machine. Because the non color managed browsers are sending the RGB values to the display. But on others display, they may not match what you see.

Quote:

Safari & Firefox display the image pretty close to PS. Chrome and Opera have the image redder, more saturated, and with slightly more contrast.
Safari and FireFox are indeed the two color managed browsers and should produce that match to Photoshop. The other two are Ďcloseí but donít. On all other users systems, those two can be a mile off.

nadaman 06-28-2011 03:07 PM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
Just when I was starting to feel good about myself, back in the dog house!

Okay, in my past experience I've used the previously discussed workflow and got the shots looking good on my system. Then I checked out how they reproduced on a couple of friend's Dell PC's with low end monitors, using their Internet Explorer web browser. At that time Mac was 1.8 gamma and PC was 2.2. Understandably the PC's showed darker and the colors they showed were believable. No martian skin tones.
There was no way to set up the monitors (their's and mine) side by side so I couldn't get a feel for how far off they were in color. But detail in shadows was not all lost.
These were people who knew nothing about computers, using the "out of the box" set-up for their monitors.

Internet Explorer for Mac is no longer supported by MS. I'm using Chrome and Opera as substitutes to judge how a no color managed browser will see my images.

Is their someplace on the web where someone has done a test and we could see how far off browsers can go that would be relevant with the workflow I described? I have seen the browser color management tester sites with the purple seascapes.

Is Chrome or Opera any better or worse than Internet Explorer in the way it shows untagged RGB?
Or do all 3 work the same?

andrewrodney 06-28-2011 04:51 PM

Re: best calibration for monitor when editing for
 
This is somewhat useful in seeing what your browser is capable of:
http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter


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