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recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2015, 08:07 AM
bohngy bohngy is offline
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recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

Hi all, i've some preset HSL settings I use in camera raw, but I now want to be able to recreate them as an adjustment layer in photoshop. Does anyone know if there is a way to do this?

The smart object route is not quite what I want as I can't insert layers between my processed RAW and the camera raw 'filter'.
I tried to translate the settings to the Hue/Saturation filter, but it looks horrible... and doesn't have as many settings as camera raw.

am I missing something here? or are colour adjustments in camera RAW a one-time-only deal?
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:53 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

I spend quite a bit of time studying these topics, so I'll try to provide a clear explanation. It won't be perfect though, because I can't provide enough background on the topics in a couple paragraphs. I can suggest literature if you're interested, but it's not easy reading.

In an RGB space, we have 3 channels. There are however different RGB spaces. In a given space, a specific value of red, green, or blue defines some contribution, yet their rate of growth may differ immensely and individual channels are not required to grow at the same rate relative to their numerical value.

Now when you adjust an image in photoshop or camera raw, you're using different spaces, and in each case the image has been mapped into this space from the preceding space. Any information that did not fit was discarded, and their rate of growth relative to their numerical value may also differ. In both cases you're viewing in yet another space, which is the same in both cases. It's just that it's a translation of what was obtained with the available tools relative to the working space translated into something viewable.

The first one may be
linear prophoto RGB ---> color adjustments --> display profile (viewing only, it's still stored in linear prophoto)

The second may be
Adobe 1998 --> color adjustments --> display profile (viewing only again)

The color adjustments are made relative to different bases, with different depictions of the image, and effectively different colors. There may be a way to get a closer reproduction between the two via elaborate guessing, but there isn't an effective way to do that today. You'll have to accept that for now it wasn't designed this way. If Adobe changes that, it will require 32 bit exports, because that's the only bit depth at which they support linear data.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:51 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohngy View Post
The smart object route is not quite what I want as I can't insert layers between my processed RAW and the camera raw 'filter'.
First off realize that with the smart object and camera raw filter they gave us a gift of being able to integrate camera raw into PS. Now you have to orient your workflow towards it.

A couple of options:

1) Use the SO CR move earlier in your workflow, building your adjustment layers above it, or

2) Do a stamped merge of your adjustments, convert it to a SO and run CR on it.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:26 PM
bohngy bohngy is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

thanks for the answers folks, I'm going to have to change my approach, I see that. I'll report back with any interesting findings I have.
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:57 PM
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andrewrodney andrewrodney is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohngy View Post
Hi all, i've some preset HSL settings I use in camera raw, but I now want to be able to recreate them as an adjustment layer in photoshop. Does anyone know if there is a way to do this?
Duplicate layer, Filter>Camera Raw, apply on a layer?
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:06 PM
bohngy bohngy is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

Sure, I get that. But i wanted to see if it was possible to do this without having to rubber stamp the layer being edited in the Camera Raw smart filter. I'll have to leave it until the last stages of my workflow because of this.

Had there been a way of applying the Camera Raw (colour and HSL) adjustments in a new adjustment layer, that would be excellent. But Flashtones was right, this is a gift in many ways, so I'll make it work for me some way.
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Old 02-17-2015, 03:06 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

What if you do as Andy says (convert to smart object first for re-editability) and then set the layer to color mode? In this way it's effect is more transparent and it's position in the layer stack less critical.

Still a kludge, but that's what it is.
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Old 02-17-2015, 05:51 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
Still a kludge, but that's what it is.
It is. Basically you don't have an invertible mapping between one space and another. It goes from camera input ---> possibly PCS --> linear prophoto RGB (we're now in camera raw ) ---> PCS ---> working space. The PCS has a much greater magnitude, but it will still clamp signed(negative) values as out of range. The working space is some smaller gamut, but still very workable.

If they wanted to support something similar to camera raw as layers, it wouldn't make sense for them to act as adjustment layers given the quirks that this would introduce on layers placed beneath those adjustment layers and above the background (would have to convert those things back into the raw space, which would introduce its own problems due to what I mentioned about it not being totally invertible). The more functional way would be to tack on support for linear prophoto rgb (since camera raw uses that) on the 32 bpc mode and expand its toolset, then allow camera raw to export something minimally processed to that. That is probably the only way you would get something close to reasonable, and I don't know whether it makes any sense on their end.

Okay end wall of text .
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Old 02-17-2015, 06:27 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

I don't understand all that, Klev, but the CR filter generally works for how I use it. Which in my case is usually for clarity, noise reduction, shadows and highlights, etc. In that capacity it's tools, I find, are better than PS's.
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Old 02-17-2015, 09:53 PM
klev klev is offline
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Re: recreating Camera RAW's HSL panel in layers

I get a little carried away at times. I basically learned most of what I know about mathematics because I wanted to contribute to a couple of open source raw processors, which I think do a really nice job. It's difficult to quickly translate into the context of a post.

Oh also I agree with you regarding the tools. I was speculating on why it would be difficult and probably unlikely to see the kind of implementation the OP wanted. Camera raw and most of photoshop use different working spaces, and different methods of computation that can't necessarily be mixed in a way that wouldn't cause problems. There are probably many things Adobe would like to do that just don't work well with the underlying structure of their applications, especially as these have to run on a very wide range of hardware across multiple operating systems.
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