RetouchPRO

Go Back   RetouchPRO > Technique > Input/Output/Workflow
Register Blogs FAQ Site Nav Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Input/Output/Workflow Scanning, printing, color management, and discussing best practices for control and repeatability

PS vs scanner; both/and? either/or?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-15-2001, 01:42 PM
kathleen's Avatar
kathleen kathleen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: mississippi
Posts: 296
PS vs scanner; both/and? either/or?

as i read the posts re scanning, tweaking scanner settings etc. ,i know i am way out of my depth. i think the most basic thing i don't understand is that many of the scanner settings mimic what is in photoshop. ( i have epson 740). i assumed photoshop tools would be more sophisticated and precise and have deferred using any custom settings on my scanner thinking i could do the same thing only better in ps. i know i did read somewhere, maybe katrin's book, not to use the unsharp mask in the scanner, which i didn't even know was there til i read that.

so, i guess the basic question is, do i need to tinker, how and how much? doesn't ps do the same thing, only better?

i am aware of the resource, scantips; i have copied it, i prob. should go ahead and print and thorouglly read, but maybe yall will help me cut to the chase.

tia
Reply With Quote top
  #2  
Old 08-15-2001, 04:31 PM
Ed_L's Avatar
Ed_L Ed_L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: northwest Indiana, about 45 minutes from Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,824
Hi Kathleen,

I'm pretty much a rookie, so I probably shouldn't say anything at all. But I will, just to see if anyone corrects me. This is what I *think*:
Setting the black and white points in the scanner will give you a better scan to make corrections on. Again I *think* you will get an easier scan to make any tonal and color corrections on in Photoshop, and lessen the chances of getting posterization from making drastic changes in Photoshop. But I would like for somebody else to either tell me if I'm right in my thinking, or wrong. Some of the other settings might be used in the scanner *if* it has better software results than the image editing program has. Anyone??

Ed
Reply With Quote top
  #3  
Old 08-15-2001, 06:11 PM
DJ Dubovsky's Avatar
DJ Dubovsky DJ Dubovsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Upper Penninsula of Michigan
Posts: 1,659
Hi Kathleen,

Ed is correct from all I have learned and experienced. You want to bring in the best photo you can from your scanner so you don't have to make such radical adjustments.

When I scan and in some photos with darks vs lights I even scan twice, I try to do as much tweeking to bring out as much image detail as I possibly can. If that means scanning twice and tweeking for darks then scan again to get detail from the highlights that's what I do.

I also try to adjust for the best color correction before I get to photoshop because I will always need to adjust there anyway but just not as much. Remember everytime you adjust in photoshop you loose image data.

Just think of it as adjusting your scanner to see the photo in the best possible way to pick up as much detail as it can. Photoshop is better software but if your scanner didn't pick up the data from the image photoshop can't manufacture it.

Since I started really playing with the image adjusts in the scanner my scans have improved ten fold which makes my photoshop results better too.

Take a photo and play around and keep scanning it in different ways and see what's good and what's not and eventually you will become familiar with the controls and you will see the difference, I promise. Hope that helps.

Oh- Yes don't use the unsharp mask in the scanner though. You were right on that one.

DJ
Reply With Quote top
  #4  
Old 08-15-2001, 06:52 PM
kathleen's Avatar
kathleen kathleen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: mississippi
Posts: 296
Smile

thanks deej, what you said made sense. i'll surely use it. k
Reply With Quote top
  #5  
Old 09-03-2001, 08:46 PM
Doh Doh is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 12
DJ, what do you mean scan twice? Do you somehow merge the two images together somehow to get the best image? I read the multiple scanning thread, but I didn't understand what they meant. Could explain this a bit more.

Thanks!

Doh.

Reply With Quote top
  #6  
Old 09-04-2001, 08:45 AM
DJ Dubovsky's Avatar
DJ Dubovsky DJ Dubovsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Upper Penninsula of Michigan
Posts: 1,659
Hi Doh,
Sometimes to get the best details out of the shadows you have to blow the highlights and that's not good either. So I scan once to get the best overall scan keeping in mind the details in my highlights and then rescan to pick up details in the darks that are missing in my first scan. I then select the shadows in the second scan and superimpose them over the first.

If you paste over your shadows, make a brightness/contrast adjustment layer above all layers and move the brightness slider to lighten everything real light. It's just a reference layer you will delete when you don't need it anymore. This way you will see any lines in your pasting that won't be visible on screen but will be seen by the printer. You don't want any tell tail darker lines from your shadows below showing on the edges of your pasted pieces or any abrupt edges. This reference layer will make everything real visible. Also use it to see if you adjusted your shadows to the correct levels to match the photo pretty well. I usually do my work and then make the layer visible to see what I have to fix then make it invisible again. When I'm done I trash the brightness/contrast layer.

I don't usually worry about the general shadows unless there are details I want seen in them. I generally select only the dark subjects such as a black animal or a man's suit. Hope that helps clarify things a bit.
DJ
Reply With Quote top
  #7  
Old 09-16-2001, 09:51 PM
Ed_L's Avatar
Ed_L Ed_L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: northwest Indiana, about 45 minutes from Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,824
Hi Debbie,

I read your technique on pasting the shadows onto the other image that has good highlights (I think that was dated the 4th, so I guess I'm a slow reader). Do you think that's easier than bringing the whole image in as a new layer, then by using a layer mask, bring out the highlights? And is there an advantage to bringing the shadows into the image, rather than the highlights? I haven't tried it yet, but just thought I'd ask. I have been playing around with the gamma, and it does make a difference. Thanks again for the tip.

Ed
Reply With Quote top
  #8  
Old 09-17-2001, 11:08 PM
DJ Dubovsky's Avatar
DJ Dubovsky DJ Dubovsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Upper Penninsula of Michigan
Posts: 1,659
You're right Ed, I missed this. I don't seem to get messages on alot of these posts and I should. I used to get e-mails on all the ones I answered.

OK Here goes. I think it is fine to bring the whole image over and use layer masking to paint out the parts you don't need. The reason I didn't say that was because many people hear the word layer mask and a mental block goes up. I figured cutting and pasting they knew for sure. But yes that would be the way to do it. As for moving the shadows instead of the highlights, it is because you can capture highlight details alot easier while maintaining the overall image integrity than you can the darks. If the photo where overall dark, I might do the opposite but for most photos with an even balance I merge the darks to the scan. Hope that answers you. It is all based on my own discoveries but that book I bought on scanning had the same technique which made me pleased to know I was actually experimenting on the right track. I was also sorry to find out I didn't invent the technique.
DJ
Reply With Quote top
  #9  
Old 09-18-2001, 12:00 AM
Ed_L's Avatar
Ed_L Ed_L is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: northwest Indiana, about 45 minutes from Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,824
Alright! Gotchya. Thanks for the reply. I knew you didn't see it, and I was glad. It gave me a chance to get on you.

Ed
Reply With Quote top
  #10  
Old 09-18-2001, 07:46 AM
DJ Dubovsky's Avatar
DJ Dubovsky DJ Dubovsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Upper Penninsula of Michigan
Posts: 1,659
Always knew you were a wise guy.

Glad I could be of service.
DJ
Reply With Quote top
Reply

  RetouchPRO > Technique > Input/Output/Workflow


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using film scanner grahamjacks Input/Output/Workflow 1 06-11-2007 12:45 PM
How can you tell if your scanner is behaving? Donamai Input/Output/Workflow 6 10-21-2006 09:41 AM
Film Scanner part 2 KevinBE Hardware 6 06-19-2006 05:06 PM
Film Scanner KevinBE Hardware 7 08-26-2003 09:06 AM
Your setup Doug Nelson Hardware 11 04-23-2002 11:19 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2016 Doug Nelson. All Rights Reserved