Offsetting yellow color in advance

[Morph]

I have a situation where I what I print & frame results in a yellow/slightly green overall tint. This tinting/hue is a result of the overlay and I really don't want to change that overlay.

Soooo, I was thinking that maybe I could adjust the colors of the print in advance via photoshop. My thought being that somehow I account for the yellow/green tint and somehow subtract or adjust the printing colors to account for this.

The goal is that when the overlay is there, the print looks as expected without any tinting. Any suggestions? I'm not experienced with colors at all.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[igot2pman]

I'm not sure I completely understand what you want.

My interpretation:
Your want to print a picture with a yellow/green tint, then project or show with an external overlay over the picture that will make the picture convert back to normal (correct) color.

Solution:
Equal amounts of the opposite color should counter act the yellow/green (Blue/Magenta).

I created an action for you to show this. Just unzip, then double click on it, lastly, press play. It was made in CS4 but should be backward compatible.

All colors are set to overlay at 25% opacity except blue at 30% opacity. Then the main folder is set to 50% opacity to lessen the effect.

Equal amounts should offset but for some reason when alls equal, it’s a tad yellow. It gets darker because the more overlays you put on an image, the less light it gets. Something to keep in mind when putting the external overlays over the picture, you might want to over brighten the picture to compensate for the overlays.

Hope this helps,
-Keven

[Morph]

Thank you, Keven The file of APN was not recognized I'm using PSD 7.0.1.

Sorry about the confusion in what I explained. My problem is that the end result I DONT want has the yellow, green tint.

Do you think I can achieve a normal look by adding extra blue/magenta to the image before I print it? Then, when I frame it with the overlay, the photo will return to a normal look because I added the blue/magenta to offset the yellow/green effect?

I hope this makes sense!

[igot2pman]

Yes, if you pre add the Blue/Magenta before it should offset. It will just be a trial and error to get the exact color diff unless you know what exactly the overlays colors are.

You might want to print a proof style print of different strength of Blue/Magenta and then put the overlays, find the ones that work best. Then print 4 or so of them and do the same thing. Then 2 if necessary. Also try different brightness amounts.

As for the action:
Set the following colors in their own layers with the following settings
Blue: Overlay, 12% opacity
Magenta: Overlay, 10% opacity
Yellow: Overlay, 10% opacity
Green: Overlay, 10% opacity

[igot2pman]

Here is a picture example of what is going on.

The left has both all 4 colors and the right has only Blue/Magenta. The center is a copy crop of the original.

As you can see the Yellow/Green offset the Blue/Magenta.

Also included a color only example.
1: original 50% grey
2: mix of all colors
3: Yellow/Green Only
4: Blue/Magenta Only

Notice how the "1" & "2" look almost the same.

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Side note: I am interested in seeing your final version/set up. An update would be nice, to see what the end product looks like.

[Morph]

yes, i will definitley post my results, good or bad. it will be a few days because i need to prep the files based on your suggestions & then i actually print at a local print shop. thanks for explanation & details. i only hope i can get the results i would like now...

[igot2pman]

Sounds like a plan! Cant wait, it just sounds like a fun little project. Im thinking of doing one myself.. maybe..probably not.. This would be good for say a teacher or a museum art or even a interesting way to show in a house.

Whats it for anyway?

Glad to help... cant wait to see it!,
-Keven

[pixelzombie]

i had a similar situation a while back, a client was using a specific backlit device with Duratrans proofs but the type of bulbs and plexi material was causing a blue cast with his black and white images..i couldn't take out any blue as his images contained specular highlights, so what i did is add yellow in 4 different amounts across the image and picked the one that looked the most neutral, the client was quite happy..another thing you could do is make a profile that takes into account the overlay you are using...

[Morph]

let me preface this with the fact that i am really tired and don't have near the experience with psd as most people here. some stuff i can do, but stuff like this gets out of my league pretty darn fast! with the results i'm posting, i'm not sure i even diagnosed my problem correctly now.

i wanted you to at least see the results i got & thank you again for you help!

finally, i didn't know if merging the separate layers into a final file would result in both the magenta & blue additions both being added? visually, it didn't appear that these changes were both there? so, i added each hue independently via a new layer using the color balance option in psd 7.0.1. then, i created three different prints for both before & after the overlay to demonstrate the results. i hope this is making sense....

[neumanns]

I don't know how PS 7 compares for features and application to the version I'm on. If your overlay is digital (something your applying in Ps) perhaps this approach will work.

1.Take the entire composite including overlay to a new layer.
2.Blur the layer with filter>blur> average. This will completly go flat...No detail
3.Open Curves adjustment layer and click on the blured layer with nutral or grey eyedropper.
4.turn off or delete the blurred layer from step 1 & 2
5. move the curves adjustment layer you created in step 3 below the overlay layer.

This should remove a color cast unless the image is color biased to begin with (example a picure of all green grass) This is not fool proof but somtimes can be used to neutralize a color cast. Or in this scenerio add a correcting color cast at the proper place in the stack

Perhaps I'm to late, I cannot tell from the thumbnails.

[igot2pman]

I don’t know, but if I am seeing this right, the one with the overlay with nothing done to it looks perfect.

There are slight differences between the additions, but the closest one with the overlay looks to be the blue. I am comparing to the no overlay original. Another thing, when your taking the pictures, your white balance will change with every picture unless you set it to a specific one. I say this because it could explain some of the diff in the your pictures.

I have another idea to maybe try and correct it. I took these pictures with the filter over the flash. Then corrected in PS. You can then take the corrections and apply it to the real image.

I have 3 examples:
The first (left), Has green and yellow filter. I then offset it by using blue and magenta set to soft light. I adjusted the opacity on both till it was like the original. I then adjusted the brightness and contrast to compensate for the filters.

The second (middle), only had yellow through the flash. A new layer filled with blue, soft light, opacity 71%. Then brightness and contrast of 40/25 respectively.

The third (right), with the filters over the picture. I tried to color correct but the color was just to strong. Is this how your putting the filters over the image?? If so you must have some light filters because the ones I have were just to strong to convert back.

________________________________________________________________

Take a screen shot of your PS so we can see what your doing. With PS as the top window (hold)alt>> push print screen (on keyboard near F12) (then in PS): file>> new>> click ok> (then) edit>>paste>>crop your layers palet like I do.

[igot2pman]

Using the color balance layer is ok, if you set both at the same time it should come out looking purple'ish.

How to make colors in new layers:
Make new blank layer>>> edit>>> fill>>> Use: color...>>> Selct color>>> click ok>>> click ok again

Color should have filled the layer

then: change the blending mode to "soft light" and adjust the opasity to taste

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Below picture is what blue and magenta look like.

[Morph]

thanks for your patience with me and the detailed explanations. working in reverse to your responses. i was adding the color in separate layers ~ i did what you said for a print-screen to show that approach. attached to this.

your explanation of adding the color via a new layer is both an "aha" and "duh" moment for me ~ thanks!

i was so tired last night that i just couldn't see the colors much less make any conclusions. their being small doesn't help so i'm sorry about that. in looking at them now, i totally agree that the blue overlay seems much closer to the original without an overlay. i think i'm going to go that route for now.

your suggestion of adjusting the white balance while taking the photo is new to me. i will keep that in mind for future work. i'm not familiar with putting filters over the flash but your idea merits my attention and some more reseach. you achieved some great results!

yes, i am putting the filter over the photo. my approach is to laminate the photo. either the laminate or the heat or both causes a slight but noticeable discoloration that i referred to as a green/yellow tint.

[igot2pman]

AHHHHH..... That explains A LOT! Very interesing that laminate would do that .

I see how you could not get both blue and magenta in the same picture.

----Number info for picture one:
----- 1. Adjustment layer maker (brightness, color adj, curves... click it to find more)
----- 2. New layer (drag and drop to copy droped layer or just click to add a blank layer)
----- 3. Blending mode (selects how the layer blends with whats below it)
----- 4. Opacity (selects how much of the layer you can see. the 50% means 50% is showing)
----- 5. Make new folder
----- 6. Make layer mask (used to mask what you want and dont want to see. Paint in the mask white for see, black for dont see Change the opasity of your paint brush for more control.)

Easyer way:

1. Click the icon #1. Make color balence adj layer. adj the blue. Rename
2. Click the icon #1. Make color balence adj layer. adj the Magenta. Rename
3. Click the icon #1. Make Brightness/Contrast... Adjust brightness and contrast.

You should have background, and 3 Adj layers, that look simmilar to the second picture below. You will now be able to see both colors added at the same time and have alot more control. You can also go back and re adj each layer by doubble clicking on it.

I'll

[Morph]

wow ~ thanks for all your help! i'm trying to break old thinking & self taught behaviors. your steps are very straight forward & helpful. it was a frustrating week for me but with your help i don't feel like shooting myself in the foot anymore! thank you again

[igot2pman]

I too am self taught, self everything. I am mechanic, bartender, photographer, editor, plumber, electrician, audio installer...etc... all self taught. I find I learn faster and retain more when I am learning on my own without the pressure of the test.

But anyway, I hope your skills advanced, that’s what this place is for anyway.

Originally Posted by Morph

your suggestion of adjusting the white balance while taking the photo is new to me. i will keep that in mind for future work. i'm not familiar with putting filters over the flash but your idea merits my attention and some more reseach.

Just to clarify, the white balance on a camera is set to auto by default, and auto will give you different white balances every time. The problem is that the white balance will partially correct the problem. On top of how do you compare two things if they are not the same?

And as for the filter over the flash. You see the little strips of filter over the picture; you just hold them up to the flash and shoot through them. Some people call them color gels; most people use them for background colors. You can use diff combos to have very unique photos. But you would have to set the white balance manually.

Well don't give up, unless the cost factor comes into play.

Good Luck,
-Keven