Q: Cloning & background

[Jeanmilden1]

Winwintoo:- You may email me privately if you would like to tell me how you did the dog. I am glad you were able to use Elements as that is the program I wanted because of the lesser cost and my being a newbie. Andrew has been helping me a lot on that. How do you fake a layer? The dog and cat came out really good I should have posted a different pose as now I have so many professional looking phtos of the same doggie pose. However, really is good learning experience to see what can be done with one picture. I liked your shawdows in the background of both pictures. Did you use the clone tool on the cat as Tyeise did? And How did you create the background. Thanks for your help.

[Jeanmilden1]

Originally posted by tyeise
Here's your kitty without the bars, using the clone tool. :-)

Tyeise

Tyeise, So you just cloned him and put him on a dark background ?

[Andrew B.]

Hi Jean. I forgot to mention that I started asking about Elements Channels. And it looks like there is a way to do this, but I'm asking more questions.

I don't know how to add a link to the message, so here is the path so you can follow along:

RetouchPRO Forums > Tools > Education > "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements" > New Hidden Power > Elements and Channels

[tyeise]

Jean,

No, I didn't clone the cat, and put him on a dark background. I made my clone brush smaller than the bars, and cloned the dark part of the background over the bars.

Tyeise

[Jeanmilden1]

Originally posted by tyeise
Jean,

No, I didn't clone the cat, and put him on a dark background. I made my clone brush smaller than the bars, and cloned the dark part of the background over the bars.

Tyeise

Tyeise, I will try that - I don't think I can make my clone brush smaller - ver 3 - But I will try and post with what I come up with.

[Jeanmilden1]

Originally posted by Andrew B.
Hi Jean. I forgot to mention that I started asking about Elements Channels. And it looks like there is a way to do this, but I'm asking more questions.

I don't know how to add a link to the message, so here is the path so you can follow along:

RetouchPRO Forums > Tools > Education > "The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements" > New Hidden Power > Elements and Channels

Andrew, Thanks - I have been sitting at this computer all day and have not been able to achieve the extracting, etc. - I need the new program. Here is my little dog - and you don't have to do anything to him - just showing him off.
Jean

[tyeise]

I can make my clone brush anywhere from 1 to 500 pixels in size. I can also vary the hardness (how sharp the outline is) as well as the opacity (how much of the background I add all at once. You also can have a choice of aligned or not aligned, as well as blend mode. I usually use normal blend mode and aligned, but for your cat, I thought about using not aligned.

If you need more info, don't be afraid to ask. :-)

Tyeise

[winwintoo]

Hi Jean, I'm going to post the instructions here because I find it distracting to read posts that refer to other discussions that take place in private rather than right here in the forum.

I'm guessing you're not the only one who might benefit from this so here goes:

Earlier your mentioned that you were confused about layers and masks. Layers first.

Layers are like transparent sheets of glass or plastic one on top of another. As long as there is no paint on the glass, you can see through it to the layer(s) below it. When you pour paint on the layer you can no longer see through it. Just like pouring paint on a sheet of glass would make it opaque.

Now imagine two layers of glass. One has the picture of your dog on it. The one on top of it has solid blue paint on it. You always look down on the layers so when you look down all you see is blue. Now if you took your fingernail or the edge of a credit card and scraped off some of the blue paint, you could see the dog again where the paint was scraped off. If you had nothing better to do, you could carefully scrape away the blue paint so you could see all of the dog, but none of the clutter or the carpet the dog is sitting on. If you slipped and scraped too much paint off, you could take a small brush and put some blue paint back.

What's a layer mask?? Well I couldn't figure it out either and in Photoshop, I still don't understand why or how they settled on the implementation they did. PSE has a MUCH EASIER WAY to accomplish the same thing.

There is probably some exotic explanation for layer masks, but what I use them for and I suspect what you will be using them for is simply to make a selection of part of an image. After the divorce, get rid of the groom and keep the bride in all the wedding pictures - that sort of thing

Now I'll try to explain in terms of your dog picture. What you want to do is keep the dog and get rid of all the rest. You already tried by using some sort of selection tool. Someone here suggested using the eraser to erase the part you don't want. That's one way, but there is the danger of the eraser slipping and recovering from an eraser slip is difficult.

Here's what I do. First, I made a copy of the original image (never work on the original) Now I took the lasso selection tool and selected loosely around the dog and saved the selection - call the selection "dog".

Now you've got the original on one layer, and on top of that another layer with a copy of the original. Now make a new empty layer and fill it with a color of your choice - the more contrast to the dog the better (I used bright blue)

Now with the blue layer selected, load the dog selection and then hit delete. Now you've got the blue layer with a hole in it so you can see the dog showing through. The problem at this point is that the original selection was not close enough to the edges of the dog and it looks messy - right?

Now pick a small paint brush and with blue paint on the blue layer, start painting around the edges of the dog. If you slop paint onto the dog, take the eraser and remove it.

When you're satisfied that you are as close to the edges of the dog as you can get, hold down the Ctrl key and click on the blue channel in the layer palet. You should have marching ants around the hole in the blue paint.

Save the selection again and call it "better dog". Click on the "eye" on the blue layer so you can'd see the blue any more.

Now click on the middle layer - the one with the copy of the dog picture - so that it is active. You should have the marching ants still there, but if you lost them, go Select, load selection and pick the selection called "better dog".

Do Ctrl + C and then Ctrl+V to copy the dog to a new layer. Click the "eye's off on all the other layers and you should see just the dog on a layer by itself.

You just faked a layer mask!

You could get rid of the blue layer now but I keep it around for a while just in case I need it again.

Now you can make a new empty layer and drag it below the layer with just the dog on it.This new layer will be the background. You can fill it any way you wan to - I can't remember what all I did, but I'll see if I can reproduce it and let you know.

Hope this helps, Margaret

[Jeanmilden1]

Originally posted by jeaniesa
Jean,

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but you might want to check out this challenge from a while back. I submitted a picture of my two cats that I wanted to extract from the background and there were quite a few submissions with different ways of doing it - along with explanations of course. You might want to find a few submissions that you particularly like and see how they were done.

Hope this helps a bit.

Jeanie

Jeanie, I will try this tomorrow - thanks so much - I need all the help everyone is giving me.

[tyeise]

Hi Winwintoo,

You said: "Someone here suggested using the eraser to erase the part you don't want. That's one way, but there is the danger of the eraser slipping and recovering from an eraser slip is difficult."

I don't know what program you are using. In PSP with the eraser tool you use the left click on the mouse while you are erasing. If you slip and take out a bit too much, you just right click and put back what you erased and try again. :-)

Tyeise

[Jeanmilden1]

Andrew, Tyeise, winwintoo, Jeanie, Danny and all who have helped - I have a lot to learn but here is my cat - Tyeise - you were right I did have controls on the paint brush (duh)- Just didn't know I had to double click it. You guys are so experienced that I think you take small things like that for granted.
Still want to know how winwintoo did it but that will have to be tomorrow. Will print out your instructions and give it a go. I think I have been sitting here till 8 a. m. - I would and will try to send a cute joke that just came to me but it might be too long for the Chuckels of the Day - not really long but has an attachment.but will try it. Think I have grown a little older since this morning. But have had fun!

[Jeanmilden1]

Hi All, Just my first watercolor - crude but I sort of wanted it that way. This is my shih tzu that you guys have been working on - that is not a cigarette just the last of his little bone. - I think I did that when I download the tryout ver of paintshop pro - He looks like he should be hanging out by a lamp post on Bourbon Street - I am from New Orleans. You guys have a Great Sunday.

[Jeanmilden1]

Originally posted by jeaniesa
Jean,

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but you might want to check out [
Hope this helps a bit.

Jeanie

Just looked at your beautiful Cats -I have so many pictures of cats I don't know why I didn't pick better ones to post but I got a lot out of this experience. Your Cat Challenge was interesting and Shirley was my first pick, then Jim Caffrey, Ron Lemire Gerry Monaghan (Unique to say the least!) David Kendel (a mention) - I judged by the fur especially looking at the cat on the right his puffy left cheek really must have been a challenge because only these few got it perfect. Well, Andrew told me fur was a hard project and now I know. But , if you look up further on this thread you will see Blacknight posted a picture of my dog and said it took him one minute! --- (How?) I am just noticing you are a moderator. If I posted this note to you as Reply to Post would you be notified? I am not sure how this works. Point me to the rules - I get so lost I have to bookmark everyplace I go or else I would never find it again. I also want to post that cute movie clip to Chuckels of the Day - It is 1.39 MB - with dos ext of mpg. Will they let me do that? You Guys are Great! Can't believe all the help in here. -
Jean

[Andrew B.]

>>You guys are so experienced that I think you take small things like that for granted.

Learning how to do backgrounds as your first photo-editing project is sort of like learning to swim in white water rapids. It's not easy to learn the advanced without the basics. On the other hand, you seem to have the tenacity to do it this way.

Anyway, I think your bar removal is very good. One thing that distracts me are some light-colored hairs along the top that could be darkened a little. No big deal in terms of your technique, but it makes for a rougher feel, which makes the cat look a touch less healthy.

The only other thing I would suggest is to look at the version with the bars and the one without the bars. Ignore your thoughts about which background looks better, and instead feel which version tugs at you more to adopt the cat. In this case, I'm not saying one is better than the other; it is just a step I would do with every pet-adoption picture.

[jeaniesa]

But , if you look up further on this thread you will see Blacknight posted a picture of my dog and said it took him one minute! --- (How?)

It looks to me like he used a soft-edged brush and went quickly around the dog. If you look closely, he doesn't really have any detailed fur at the edges, just a nice soft look. I assume he copied the dog to a new layer - then I can't tell if he just blurred the heck out of the background already there (the rug) or created a new background based on the original color of the rug. He also added some texture to the background that complements the dog's fur nicely. The trick to the simplicity of what he did is that he used a similar color for the new background. Trying to do that and move the dog onto a background of contrasting color might not have worked as well. Anyway, that's why that particular photo was able to be finished so quickly.

Also, it sounds as though you are just starting out. For those of us who can do things a little faster, it's mostly because we've been practicing for a bit longer than you have. We all started where you are though, so don't get discouraged. You will get faster!

I am just noticing you are a moderator. If I posted this note to you as Reply to Post would you be notified? I am not sure how this works.

If I have posted to a thread, then I get e-mail notifications for subsequent new posts to the same thread. If I don't post to a thread, then I will pick up new posts when I click on the "New Posts" menu item. This is the same behavior for all members - I don't get any special notification as a moderator.

Point me to the rules - I get so lost I have to bookmark everyplace I go or else I would never find it again.

Rules for what? How to get around the site? What you're allowed to post and what you're not? You might want to read the FAQ. The sitemap may be helpful to you as well. If you need more info than that, let me know what's got you confused.

I also want to post that cute movie clip to Chuckels of the Day - It is 1.39 MB - with dos ext of mpg. Will they let me do that?

Unfortunately, there's a 100KB limit for attachments to posts in the forums. (200KB in the gallery.) So, you won't be able to post it directly. You could put it on a website somewhere and post a link to it however.

Hope this helps,
Jeanie

[Jeanmilden1]

Jean

((Learning how to do backgrounds as your first photo-editing project is sort of like learning to swim in white water rapids. )) -

Andrew:_ No one told me that , AND I THINK I JUST DROWNED TODAY!

Started out with Margaret's notes and realized I have no layer function on Paint Shp 3. Tried to Mask and that didn't work. So I started with a selection and copied it - made a duplicate of the original and covered it with a color and them pasted the selection . By the time I got half way thru my white dog had turned pink from I don't know what. So, I had to copy the original dog onto the pink dog . Now, you realize I am going back and forth between the orginal photo and the new one - I started getting dizzy! then started working on a spray paint background. Well, my spray can does not spray - just round blobs . So I fiddled with every tool until I sort of was satisfied - - Here I am at 3:00 a.m. - think I forgot to eat lunch and dinner. I did a sort of a look a like (extraction) - but won't post it - for taking me this long I should have a master -piece! I will do it - just need a little more time and Elements. And, that's coming soon.

Re:- No Bars Cat:- ((One thing that distracts me are some light-colored hairs along the top that could be darkened a little. )) I did that trying to brighten him up - guess it just made him look green along the edge - Should have just lighten him a bit.

((The only other thing I would suggest is to look at the version with the bars and the one without the bars. )) I know what you mean but I was just looking for a project - He was adopted bars and all! Thanks, and Good Night

[Andrew B.]

Jean,

>>Started out with Margaret's notes and realized I have no layer function on Paint Shp 3.

I didn't see Margaret's notes, but layers help a lot. One method is to put the background on a layer under the foreground, and paint black onto a layer mask of the upper layer. As you are painting you don't see black going onto the picture. What you see is the background showing through where you paint. And if you make a mistake, you paint with white and the foreground comes back. Of course, it is not easy to perfectly paint into the area where you went your background to meet your foreground. That is where selection techniques come into play, and there are several method, each with its own advantage. But once it's selected it's easier to paint in there. And then fix the edge.

>>for taking me this long I should have a master -piece!

Nah. You're still getting used to the tools and seeing how they work.

BTW, I love the picture or your dog. And that carpet looks gorgeous, what I can see of it.

[Jeanmilden1]

Hi - I finally made a halfway decent extraction - Some of the fur looks good and other parts not so but at least it is not pink like the one from Sunday. Thanks to all - Can't wait to get Elements. You can give feedback - anything will be appreciated. Tyeise - I just wanted to tell you that cat (orange Tabby) named Romeo really looks Great - Do you think I would be able to do that with Elements? -
---Andrew - I copied the links you sent - haven't had the time to look at them yet.

[tyeise]

Hello Jean,

Originally posted by Jeanmilden1
Tyeise - I just wanted to tell you that cat (orange Tabby) named Romeo really looks Great - Do you think I would be able to do that with Elements? -

I'm afraid I can't help you much with this question, as I haven't used Elements.

I will say that I couldn't have done it without PSP's new background eraser tool. Otherwise I would have lost all those little pieces of fur and whiskers sticking out.

Tyeise

[Sanda]

one of the best tips I've ever learnt was from this thread http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/sho...ghlight=smudge
it's great to make the hair on animals and people look more natural byt extending them and giving that "fluffy look"

[Andrew B.]

Hi Jean.

>>I finally made a halfway decent extraction - Some of the fur looks good and other parts not so but at least it is not pink like the one from Sunday. <<

Looks like you are getting there in leaps and bounds. There are some things I could pick on, but it looks like you see them too. Still pretty good.

BTW, I also see problems in my own dog on green extraction, and I have more experience. But it will serve as a reminder to me about what I overlooked.

[Stephen M]

Post extraction (via any method) - the use of the clone stamp tool in Color blend mode or a layer in Color blend mode is good for touching up the edge in some cases. As you do not have to worry about messing up detail, one can be pretty rough n ready with the clone work taking colour from inside the image. This is very handy when objects take on edge reflections of their surrounds, which then look weird when the object is taken out of the background.

Then there is the defringe command, which is more for manual masking than the Extract tool (which uses it's own built in edge method).

More on the subject of masking/extraction:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~binar...V_links.html#M


Stephen Marsh.

[Jeanmilden1]

Sandra, Andrew and Stephen, Thanks for all the links. Sandra, I read about the Smudge - but don't have it hope it comes with elements. Stephen, The last link you sent has everything anyone could ever want about extraction - So, looks like I will be reading for the next couple of weeks. Had to grin to myself after I pulled up Stephen's link - as if he was quietly saying - "Here it is girl - all you could want to know about cloning - so stop your boohooing"! - sooo much in there it is hard to know what to pick. After reading some of this it is like you all are talking a second language. - How long have you guys been doing this? -- I have looked at all your creations on the different forums and am honored to have your help. Andrew thanks for your comments on my Dog Ext. This was the original picture - he just got back from the groomer and hates bows so he pushed his head against the sofa till it landed on the side of his face. The only tool I used was the lasso to pick the selection - then copy and put a new image with the same color background and then Edit and paste.
P.S. is there a spell check on here?

[Jeanmilden1]

Hi everyone, Just wanted to let Andrew, Stephen, Tyeise, Sandra ,
Jeanie, Blacknight, pstewart and Winwinto (spel?) that I have been practicing and all your help was invaluable. I can now do some of the methods we talked about in the beginning. I will post a couple -- not like you guys but I am coming along.
Jean

[Jeanmilden1]

This is a picture of my dog I posted earlier. I cannot take credit for the hat as Phyllis did that - but I did extract and fix fur and new background.

[tyeise]

Nice work, Jean! Looks like you are really getting the hang of it!

Tyeise