Photo Art Mini-Challenges - - PHOTO ART: Mini-challenge #107 – Wagon - Page 3

BillC · #31 04-15-2003, 10:15 AM

Bill - very clean - nice conversion to BW...I agree with Phyllis - professional looking.
Kind regards,
Bill C

retpmikl · #32 04-15-2003, 04:01 PM

Bill M, excellent work. This bw looks like an original. Bravo !

Second try :
- grayscale, levels...
- Ancient Photo Digital Focus atn

retpmikl · #33 04-15-2003, 04:02 PM

3rd try :
- grayscale, levels...
- Ancient Photo Digital Focus atn
- Antique Engraving atn, Normal at 60 %

Don't realy know wich one I prefer.

jerry · #34 04-15-2003, 05:15 PM

Billm.. Very nice b/w rendition.. As previously stated, looks very professional. Any hints on how to start to do a conversion like that?

Mikl.. Nice sepia effect.. I really like the first one better.. The second is a little washed out on my monitor.. Nice Work..

Jerry

herman · #35 04-15-2003, 10:18 PM

In Photshop I got rid of the powerlines and that tower thingie, added a copy on a second layer, opacity 70% and drop shadow.

Bill M · #36 04-16-2003, 07:14 AM

Jerry-- Thanks for the kind words. As far as hints go for b&w, that would be like taking hints from a musician who plays by ear when your studying classical piano! But I can at least tell you what I tried to do. I'm sure there are great books out there that I should be reading.
After studying great b&w photos, it seemed that grey is the enemy and contrast is your goal, but without large blotches of black or white. So using curves adjustment layers (about 10), including the eyedroppers, I maximized contrast everywhere on the image. I then sat back and studied where it was too harsh or too distracting or just too ugly.
The following three small thumbnails, I hope, will illustrate that sequence. The top is just desaturate. The middle is full contrast. The last is the final product. What's amazing is that not once was sharpening used. I'll try this flow for a while and see if it works again.
Best regards, Bill

Bill M · #37 04-16-2003, 07:31 AM

Part 2-- The wagon photo did not have one channel superior to the others, so I just used desaturate. But the following photos show the opposite:
The top is right out of the camera.
The middle is desaturated.
The bottom is the g channel only.
Makes a big difference. To me the bottom one actually captures the depth of the red better. The middle one looks like pink should look!

jeaniesa · #38 04-16-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill M
So using curves adjustment layers (about 10), including the eyedroppers, I maximized contrast everywhere on the image. I then sat back and studied where it was too harsh or too distracting or just too ugly.

Bill, I want to repeat this back in different words so that I know I understand what you're saying... If I followed your images correctly, the first thing you did was a curve to add lots of contrast to the entire photo. Then, you created another curves adjustment layer and used the eyedropper to run over areas in the photo you wanted to change, noted the corresponding range on the curve, and adjusted just that area of the curve until the area looked like you wanted. Then, created another curve adjustment layer and did the same for a different area, etc.

Did I understand that right? Did you use any masking in your curves adjustment layers?

Thanks, Jeanie

Bill M · #39 04-16-2003, 10:41 AM

That's pretty much it, except I used a mask on every single adjustment layer. It took the ten layers and masks to achieve the middle look, and that is where I flattened for the first time. Then still more masked layers were used to reach the final look. I believe every mask was a black inverted mask where I would paint with white to bring out the small correction I had made. Never could I get anything useful from a curve applied to the entire image. Each little area of the image, such as the shadow under the wagon or the front of the wagon, required its own individual treatment. The rest of what you say is true. It's trial and error and might seem tedious, but it was fun.
Bill

jeaniesa · #40 04-16-2003, 12:15 PM

Fascinating Bill! Thanks for the explanation.

You might be interested in this Color-to-B&W conversion method by Russell Brown. Click on the "more tips" button and then scroll down the tips until you find "Seeing in Black and White" - there's both a Quicktime movie and PDF file explaining the technique. I've found it to be quite flexible - esp. when you get to the last "But wait, there's more!" section.

Jeanie

Bill M · #41 04-16-2003, 02:15 PM

Thanks, Jeanie. I made an action from that a while back, but (LOL) the results of moving the sliders appeared to my ignorant eye to be random. I guess I don't have an instinct for color interplay, so just light and dark is about all I can handle for now.

Thanks, Bill

jerry · #42 04-16-2003, 05:01 PM

Wow Bill M
You and Jeanie have been really busy today.. I really appreciate your explanation of your technique.. I really admire those B&W pics with the great contrast but never had a clue about how to approach them before.. I guess I am going to give it a shot now.

Thanks again for your help

Jerry

HMMM.. I wonder if a "Black & White conversion" thread would be helpful.. Hint Hint..Your the teacher..

Pam · #43 04-16-2003, 11:02 PM

Just wanted to say what great work all of you have done on this one, this has been a great thread to watch.

Bill M, your b+w is perfectly done, kudos to your touch in the "darkroom".

FYI, Danny Raphael has a great action that allows you to see and compare almost all the b+w conversion methods available at one time, including Russell Brown's. The action and explanation of different conversion techniques are here:

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/sho...&threadid=4769

Scroll down to "III. Photoshop Action to illustrate above steps"

Pam

Bill M · #44 04-17-2003, 09:06 AM

Thanks, Pam. Yes, I have Danny's action.
Jerry, I think a black and white thread is a great idea. I'm not ready to start one myself though. This time next week you'll have as much experience with it as I do! Everything I know is above in this tread. I never cared about b&w until my daughter gave me an Ansel Adams calendar for Christmas.

But here's my thoughts:
--there are many books on Ansel Adams
--there are many books on b&w photography
--every book on digital photography mentions it
--many people do it and have galleries on the web

If anyone has experience or references on the subject, by all means let's fire up a thread now. With my usual bulldog tenacity, I'm going to see if there is a code to break on this, at least that suits MY taste. I think we all know the several ways to basically convert, but I want to research what to do after that.
Bill

phili1 · #45 04-25-2003, 04:17 AM

Phyliss, nice colored pencil, I like the gold tone top of trees.
Jerry I love the way you featured the wagon and the second sub illusion.
Bill C your has a very nice softness effect.
Amanda nice composition, I think I would like the farmer and wagon a little sharper then the rest .
Black night I like thre painting effect, works well.
Ken nice B&W and frame.SEc one erffect is different.
REtmiki nice hand coloring.
Bill M yours reminds me of an Ansel Adams zone system graeat tonal range.

I tried for a water coloring, but I think its more of a hand coloring, with accent lighting on wagon