Software: Alien Skin Snap Art

[Diane]

Press release:
http://www.creativepro.com/story/news/24973.html?cprose=7-50

Reviews:
http://www.alienskin.com/snapart/snapart_reviews.html
Kevin L. Kitchens - http://photographyvoice.com/pv/revie...e/snapart.aspx

Take these as a grain of salt. Download and try the demo yourself.

For product information, system requirements, pricing, etc:
http://www.alienskin.com/snapart/index.html

Compatibility note:

Despite what it says regarding "system requirements," so far it has been reported that Snap Art works fine with Photoshop 7, PaintShop Pro 9 and Painter 8.

It probably works with PSP 10, Elements 2, 3 and 4, too. If in doubt it doesn't hurt to try the demo.

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Free goodies and tech Q/A

* Alien Skin's support forum for free Snap Art preset downloads, tech Q/A, printing tips, etc:
http://www.alienskin.com/forum/forum...sp?FID=31&PN=1

Galleries, Examples:
* Snap Art Example Book created by David Janik-Jones:
http://www.alienskin.com/snapart/snapart_downloads.html


* http://www.alienskin.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=668

* http://web.mac.com/orrail/iWeb/ORRAIL%27S/Photo%20Paintings.html

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Have you tried Alien Skin's Snap Art?

I don't think I care for this plugin. Results I get are not so great.

I do better with Impressionist, and Paint Engine.

~Diane

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DIDN'T LIKE IT AT FIRST...THEN CHANGED MY MIND
January, 2007

For what it's worth my first impressions of Snap Art were quite negative. This initial reaction was based on the gallery of examples in the at the Alien Skin website and my personal experiences applying the presets that came installed with the program (demo download). In most cases I felt the results rendered by the factory settings were not useful in terms of the types of digital artwork I like to do.

But after using SA for nearly every day of the allotted 30-day trial period I changed my mind and purchased this plugin. Why? With use I liked it more and more.

I went through each filter, thoroughly exercising the installed presets and experimenting with individual control combinations. For nearly every Snap Art filter I discovered setting combinations that yielded results I liked, in some cases a whole lot. (As time goes along I will upload some of my custom preset "discoveries" to share.)

Like some exotic foods I found Snap Art to be an acquired taste: I had to try it several times before I began to understood how to use it to achieve results I liked.

So, don't let negative reports disuade you from trying it out.

~Danny~

[Xaran]

Have to agree there the sketch effect is awful...

Christine

[Steve Conway]

Have seen some things done with it that I like. Some of the oil painting is very good.

It has two drawbacks. It is VERY expensive, about $145 U.S. And it only works on the lastest versions of PS and Paint Shop Pro, neither of which I have.

Steve

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Steve Conway

Have seen some things done with it that I like. Some of the oil painting is very good.

It has two drawbacks. It is VERY expensive, about $145 U.S. And it only works on the lastest versions of PS and Paint Shop Pro, neither of which I have.

Steve

Take a look at ALL the examples in the sample gallery http://www.alienskin.com/snapart/snapart_examples.html.

Note: The same "before" image is used for several effects, so cycle through the entire gallery to get the full picture of SA's capabilities.

Those who download/install the plugin for evaluation, post some example results, including the "before" for comparison purposes.

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FYI: Those who already have an Alien Skin product installed qualify for the $99 (US) "upgrade" price.

~Danny~

[Steve Conway]

Originally Posted by DannyRaphael

Take a look at ALL the examples in the sample gallery http://www.alienskin.com/snapart/snapart_examples.html.

Note: The same "before" image is used for several effects, so cycle through the entire gallery to get the full picture of SA's capabilities.

Those who download/install the plugin for evaluation, post some example results, including the "before" for comparison purposes.

------------

FYI: Those who already have an Alien Skin product installed qualify for the $99 (US) "upgrade" price.

~Danny~

Ok everybody, a slight change in my last post re. Snap Art. I have it working now in PSP 9. It does not state anywhere that I could find, that you have to install it directly into the plugin folder of every program you want to use it in. When I finally found this out, I re-installed it and it works fine.

Only tried the oil paint effect so far. Here is before and after on a barn image.

Steve

[Steve Conway]

Some more examples of the barn in Snap Art.

Keep in mind each of these effects have hundreds of settings, I have only picked one for each example.

color pencil...comics....impasto & pastel landscape sketch

Steve

[Steve Conway]

More barn images.

Pen & ink...pencil sketch...pointillism...stylize...& watercolor.

Steve

[DannyRaphael]

These examples are great, Steve... They sure help one visualize the possibilities.

Many thanks... ~Danny~

[chillin]

It’s very flexible, awesome plugin

[Steve Conway]

Originally Posted by DannyRaphael

These examples are great, Steve... They sure help one visualize the possibilities.

Many thanks... ~Danny~

My pleasure. The problem I see is the price. Otherwise it has some good features for getting the exact look you are after.

Still have about 28 days left on the demo.

Maybe I'll get a cup and sit on a street corner.

Steve

[borderline]

I worked on the development team for Snap Art so I am glad some of you have tried it out. In writing the filters we did do a bit of research on this and the dpreview retouching forums to get some inspiration. Thanks to everyone!

Snap Art will probably work ok with older versions of Photoshop too. The reason we only support for CS or later is because we only do testing on the listed hosts (it would be way too time consuming to do all of our testing the many versions and hosts out there). But we often find that it will work anyway and the problems are cosmetic UI issues. You should try the demo for the full 30 days (it is fully functional) to see if there are any problems- it is up to you to decide if it works with what you have (if it is not listed).

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear some of you have had less success with the product. Some photo/filter combinations are much more difficult to get nice looking results. Most of the time, you can go through the settings and find something that works but in some cases, or if you want a certain look it takes some experience. For example, Pencil Sketch is actually one of my favorite filters in the set but it can be difficult to get the look that you want because it is capable of such a variety of effects. For instance, the first (left) attached image is the factory default setting of a picture of my daughter. It is rather abstract and sketchy and hard to recognize. The second is from the same image, but I increased coverage and more importantly, I adjusted the color to black and white conversion parameters to get the tones I was looking for. For this filter (and pen and ink), you are losing a lot of perceptual information when you discard the color information, so the black and white conversion process (tone tab) is very important. I usually start there. Also, I seem to get better results when the coverage is high. I will agree that this filter can be a bit tough to use if you want photorealism.

When we write our filters there is often a trade-off between the power of what a filter can do and how easy to use it is. For this product we really wanted to get away from the really computery looking effects and try to make pictures that look like a human made them and which are also capable of creating abstract works of art (but that are 1-click). For that reason, it is possible to make unrecognizable results.

Anyway, I hope you can get a chance to try the demo- it is fully functional for 30 days. I think that with a little experience you should be able to see how much time you can save using it and also have some fun.

Thanks,
Tom

[Kraellin]

borderline,

welcome to RP.

and thanks for coming in and talking about your product. it's always great to have developers come in and discuss their products. that whole 'computery' effect would make an interesting topic somewhere here on RP.

cute daughter

[DannyRaphael]

Hi Tom:

I too would like to add my welcome and appreciation for your insider commentary and advice.

Inspired by your comment, I downloaded the demo and can confirm SA works fine with Photoshop 7.01 as well as Painter 8. It makes a world of difference assessing SA's capabilities and features based on hands-on experience vs. looking at example images.

re: Tom's pencil settings
Why is that combination that yields quite realistic results not included among the installed presets -- or is it and I've yet to find it? (I thought I tried all of them.)

~Danny~

[DannyRaphael]

For example, Pencil Sketch is actually one of my favorite filters in the set but it can be difficult to get the look that you want because it is capable of such a variety of effects. For instance, the first (left) attached image is the factory default setting of a picture of my daughter. It is rather abstract and sketchy and hard to recognize.

The second is from the same image, but I increased coverage and more importantly, I adjusted the color to black and white conversion parameters to get the tones I was looking for.

For this filter (and pen and ink), you are losing a lot of perceptual information when you discard the color information, so the black and white conversion process (tone tab) is very important. I usually start there.

Also, I seem to get better results when the coverage is high.

Ya lost me here...
1. Did you use the Pencil Sketch filter on the second interpretation or the Pen and Ink filter?

2. re: the black and white conversion process (tone tab)
* Is the Automatic Color Conversion control checked or unchecked here?
* Are you doing the tonal adjustments with the channel controls?
* Is this set of controls similar in concept to Photoshop's Channel Mixer (monochrome option on) where one generally shoots for a sum of percentages in the neighborhood of 100%?

[Xaran]

I'll have to give this more of a test run seeing that sketch example - but I second Danny on why is there not a preset for it - this could make the difference in my buying or not.

Can presets be imported from a text file?

Christine

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Xaran

I'll have to give this more of a test run seeing that sketch example - but I second Danny on why is there not a preset for it - this could make the difference in my buying or not.

Can presets be imported from a text file?

Christine

re: Can presets be imported from a text file?

Yes. Once a setting combination has been saved for future recall via the Save button in the Settings dialog, one can "export" it via the Manage button. The resulting file is in a unique format (.f1S file suffix) can be subsequently be "imported" by another SA user.

Having spent a few hours experimenting with SA, it has some intriguing and quite unique arty possibilities. Results using the Comics and Stylize filters stand out in that regard in my opinion. Applied in 2-3 passes using different brush and stroke length sizes on separate layers combined using Layer Masks the Oil Painting effect looks pretty good on images that do not have a lot of detail.

Christine - FYI: graphite pencil-like effects are possible using the Color Pencil filter and setting the Saturation slider to the far leftin the Color tab .

So far, however, I have not had much success with results on "people" subjects. The level and quality of detail have been insufficient to meet my needs in this area. Except for SA pencil sketch effects combined with output from Akvis Sketch, which look pretty decent actually, the solution has not been to add an unrendered layer copy of an unmodified layer or a layer rendered by another filter/plugin above the SA rendered layer and attempt to restore detail using a Layer Mask. Doing that looks "too weird" against a SA rendered layer.

I look forward to continuing my experimenting during the generous 30-day evaluation period.

~Danny~

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by DannyRaphael

So far, however, I have not had much success with results on "people" subjects. The level and quality of detail have been insufficient to meet my needs in this area.

OK... guilty as charged. When it comes to reading HELP files, that's among the last things I usually do.

Here's an excerpt from the built-in HELP that I found to be especially enlightening.

Choosing the Right Filter for Your Image
Any Snap Art filter will work on any photo, but the following guidelines will help you narrow in on the look you want.

Turning a portrait into a traditional work of art is probably the most common task for Snap Art. If you want to make the subject realistic, your best bet is Oil Paint, Pastel, or Impasto with a small brush size.

For a traditional yet more abstract look, try Color Pencil, Pencil Sketch, Pointillism, or Watercolor. The result will look like traditional hand drawn media, but the result will be less detailed than the previous filters.

If you want a really funky modern look, try Comics, Stylize, or Pen and Ink. Comics can keep the subject recognizable while turning it into something Andy Warhol might have done. For a more abstract look, Stylize or Pen and Ink can dramatically simplify the photo.

These descriptions are in alignment with the results I am getting so far. It helps to have the right expectations.

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by Xaran

...I second Danny on why is there not a preset for it - this could make the difference in my buying or not.

Look what I just found -- a bunch of recently posted SA presets, courtesy of Tom, and their focus is to generate detailed results.

See: http://www.alienskin.com/forum/forum...p?TID=620&PN=1

Here's what worked for me...
* Created a folder on my Desktop, \Snap Art preset downloads
* (using Internet Explorer) Right-clicked on each preset link on the Alien Skin forum page
* From the flyout menu chose Save target as...
* Pointed to and saved the preset in \Snap Art preset downloads
* Repeated the previous 3 steps for all preset file links
* When all files were downloaded, I double-clicked on one file at a time. Doing this achieved the same result as engaging the Manage dialog, that is, the custom preset was loaded into SA without going through the Manage dialog each time. How cool is that?

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by DannyRaphael

2. re: the black and white conversion process (tone tab)
* Is the Automatic Color Conversion control checked or unchecked here?
* Are you doing the tonal adjustments with the channel controls?
* Is this set of controls similar in concept to Photoshop's Channel Mixer (monochrome option on) where one generally shoots for a sum of percentages in the neighborhood of 100%?

See this post at the Alien Skin site for a well illustrated and explained answer to the above questions.
http://www.alienskin.com/forum/forum...p?TID=617&PN=1

[Xaran]

Thanks Danny - I had another go albeit brief and got quite good results using the charcoal settings.

Will post some examples later.


Christine

[borderline]

Hi Guys, I started reading the questions you posted and was about to answer them but as I finished reading the thread it seems as if you have all figured out the answers!

In summary...

The pencil sketch and pen and ink filters are both well served by some careful experimentation with the tone tab (see my forum post here).
I do turn the automatic conversion off for most photos because I personally like having the control (the automatic is for those who are not interesting in spending the time learning how it works). For those interested, our version of the "channel mixer" equalizes the percentages for RGB to add up to 100% so you don't have to do it in your head (does that answer your questions Danny?).

Yes, I agree I should have put more high detail settings in the factory default settings (especially for pencil sketch). That was mainly due to time contraints when putting out the product. As was mentioned, there are lots more free ones (better for portraits) that you can just click to import/download here.

Also, you can trade settings very easily (email or post). We will probably put more out later too.

Yes, the key insight for getting photorealistic portrait shots is to lower the brush size and set "preserve details" to 100.

Let me know if you have any more questions...

Tom

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by borderline

I do turn the automatic conversion off for most photos because I personally like having the control (the automatic is for those who are not interesting in spending the time learning how it works). For those interested, our version of the "channel mixer" equalizes the percentages for RGB to add up to 100% so you don't have to do it in your head (does that answer your questions Danny?).

Hi Tom. Yes, this [and the info you posted on the AS forum page] fills in the gaps.

Thanks much for checking back in and for the additional info.

~Danny~

[Steve Conway]

Really starting to get some good stuff on SA here now.

F.Y.I. I have found that after using the oil painting filter on an image, if I run USM on the image it really brings out the brushstrokes.

Might work on others as well.

Steve

[DannyRaphael]

Original: Click here.

Setting: Comics > Black and white, lattice shading

I painted white over a couple errant spots and added the edge frame, too.

[DannyRaphael]

Original: Same as previous.

Attachment 1:
* Snap Art > Stylize > Assorted, Desaturated (Seed = 3715**) applied to a copy of the Background
* Although the results are similar to what one gets applying Photoshop Artistic > Cutout or Image > Adjustments > Posterize, one has more control over the outcome in Snap Art.

Attachment 2:
* Snap Art > Stylize > Stylize > LIne Art, small features (downloaded from Alien Skin forum - see first post in this thread for link). Number of lines = 100, seed = 9999. Applied to a copy of Background. This layer was then moved to the top layer.
* Blend mode = Darken makes the 'white' disappear.
* The result is interesting, but a little too abstract for me: not enough detail in the face.

Attachment 3: Used an old Photoshop trick to dig out more detail.
* Photoshop > Blur > Smart Blur > Edge only (3, 20), Normal applied to a copy of Background. This layer was then moved to the top layer.
* Ctrl + I (to invert)
* Photoshop > Stylize > Anisotropic (to soften lines)
* Sharpen > Unsharp Mask (85, 7.0) to give lines a little more definition.
* Blend mode = Darken makes the 'white' disappear.
* Added Hide All layer mask
* Painted white on the layer mask to reveal additional detail where needed
* Added frame edges

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** Important: The results of applying any given Snap Art setting are a function of the "Seed" value. In other words the outcome is affected by changes in the seed setting even though all other control settings are the same.

I'm not used to recording this value yet, so in some cases your results will look different than mine.

[DannyRaphael]

OK... how about an oil painting?
* Duplicate Background
* Snap Art > Oil Painting > oil paint > brush, rough and dry
* Duplicate Background again; drag copy to top of layer stack
* Snap Art > Oil Painting > oil paint > brush, long strokes
* Add Photoshop Hide All layer mask
* Paint white on layer mask where needed to reveal detail, e.g., eyes, lips
* Select > All
* Edit > Copy merged
* Add a new layer
* Edit > Paste
* Sharpen to taste
* Optional (not shown in the attachment): Photoshop > Brush Strokes > Spatter (4,5). Add another Hide All layer mask and paint white wherever you want to "rough up" the paint edges a bit.

[borderline]

Ok, here are my renderings of the redhead portrait using Snap Art (no further manipulation).

I had to shrink them down to meet the 100k limit so a lot of detail was lost in the highlights (esp for impasto).

On the left is Impasto. This is one of my favorite filters because it can be used for portraits or really dramatic painterly effects. I tried making some prints on canvas paper of some of my own photos and they turned out really nice.

The middle is Pastel. This filter is usually good for portraits.

The right is Watercolor. I usually like to use this filter for colorful landscapes, but this image works for me.

Hey this is fun!

[DannyRaphael]

Originally Posted by borderline

Hey this is fun!

Indeed it is, Tom.

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Mine is a combination of two layers manipulated with the Snap Art > Impasto > Abstract, Rough setting.

See the Layers Palette snapshot attachment for a visual version of the following:
* Duplicate Background
* Impasto > Abstract, Rough
* Duplicate Background again and drag to top of layer stack
* Apply Impasto > Abstract, Rough again, but this time with Brush Size control lowered to 9 to render more detail.
* A Hide All layer mask was added to the detail layer and white painted to reveal detail in her face.
* Select > All
* Edit > Copy Merged
* Add a new layer
* Edit > Paste
* Optional: Sharpen this layer a bit and selectively apply the effect with a Hide All layer mask

Attachment 1:
* Impasto > Abstract, Rough applied to duplicate of the Background. Note the absence of facial detail

Attachment 2:
* Final result with a little sharpening applied to her face.

Attachment 3:
* Snapshot of the Layers Palette

[LQQKER]

I spent about a week trying this filter out. Personally I am sold to the many possibilities this will provide for.

Although it's difficult to post a low resolution photo showing results, I'll give it a shot. This Original picture was taken with my Canon 20D and reduced to 150 dpi at 8X10. The only filter used was SnapArt, although I did not just use a preset, I created my own. Of course using this in conjuction with other filters could create much better results.

[DannyRaphael]

The original image for this interpretation can be found here.

See the Layer's palette snapshot for the Snap Art settings used. One of these was a Pencil Sketch custom preset I uploaded below.

To import this setting into your Snap Art plugin:
* Download and unzip the .zip file
* Open the Snap Art dialog
* Choose the Pencil Sketch filter
* Click the Manage button on the Settings panel
* Click the Import button and navigate to the location of the unzipped setting file...

or (alt method):
* Download and unzip the .zip file
* Double-click on the unzipped setting file

Merry Christmas!

~Danny~