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Photo-Based Art Emulating natural-media painting techniques

Deep Paint Water Color

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  #11  
Old 03-16-2006, 03:00 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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nancy,

on your watercolor, i like the color parts. i also know you're testing and attempting to flex your art muscles a bit more from what you've said in your recent posts. so, if i may, i'm not real crazy about all that white space. there is a lot of it.

and before saying the next thing, i'll preface it with saying that my exposure to watercolors is quite limited, so take this with a big grain of salt. to me, watercolors bleed a lot. this consideration probably comes mostly from seeing watercolors primarily done on very absorbent, highly textured papers. the colors just ran or bled a great deal. now, i know that's a very limited idea of what a watercolor shld be or is, but i just cant help that every time i see someone do a watercolor, i look for that bleeding. if i dont see it, then it isnt a watercolor to me. so, that may just be me.

however, watercolors are almost always done on paper of some sort and i'd love to see you add some paper texture in there, especially on the white where it might show the most.

craig
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:29 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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alright, i changed some of the background to reduce the white 'snow'. i also changed some opacities and blends to allow more of the rain to show through. it was there all the time on the layers, but i had purposely reduced the effect.

and i would like some feedback on this... better, worse, indifferent?

craig

edit: probably help if i actually posted the image
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2006, 09:59 PM
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I like your rendering Photomaster.

Before my computer crashed, I dabbled with Deep Paint a little myself, but it's really not designed to be used with a mouse, so when I rebuilt my machine, I decided not to re-install it.

Anyway, here's my cheating entry (used Vector simplication again; that's what I call cheating). Also blended in some Wash effects with Paint Engine.
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2006, 03:48 AM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
on your watercolor, i like the color parts. i also know you're testing and attempting to flex your art muscles a bit more from what you've said in your recent posts. so, if i may, i'm not real crazy about all that white space. there is a lot of it.
White space is a common 'feature' of watercolours. At school my art teacher always nagged me about not leaving enough of the paper showing through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
and before saying the next thing, i'll preface it with saying that my exposure to watercolors is quite limited, so take this with a big grain of salt. to me, watercolors bleed a lot. this consideration probably comes mostly from seeing watercolors primarily done on very absorbent, highly textured papers. the colors just ran or bled a great deal. now, i know that's a very limited idea of what a watercolor shld be or is, but i just cant help that every time i see someone do a watercolor, i look for that bleeding. if i dont see it, then it isnt a watercolor to me. so, that may just be me.
That stuff is horrible, its like trying to paint on toilet paper I'm very anal about what I paint on. I dislike canvas too, for oils and acrylics I find a nice smooth wood base is wonderful to paint on - if less practical. With watercolours I always prefer a tight fairly smooth, weighty paper - preferably card backed. I like to control every brush stroke. The rough stuff is like nasty recycled paper and you have to wet and stretch it so it doesnt crinkle.
Bleeding can also be a sign of impatience If you dont let the surounding areas dry properly then your colours will bleed and can ruin your picture. Some people let it bleed intentionally because thats their style but it was never mine. I like to be precise - I know, I'm just anal On a fine and more importantly, dry paper with controlled brush strokes you get a watery look with darkened edges where the water soaks into the paper but stops when it meets the dry barrier and more colour settles there than in the middle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
however, watercolors are almost always done on paper of some sort and i'd love to see you add some paper texture in there, especially on the white where it might show the most.

craig
I guess I got out of adding texture after working for print, you dont want to print an artificial paper texture on the finished piece.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2006, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
nancy,

oh, ok. wasnt sure there wasnt a pun in there directed at mine. as for the compression, i just looked at the original again and the attachment and the posted one isnt really that different even with the heavy compression. so, being that i find i tend to agree with a lot of your critiques in the other forums and that i know you'll give an honest, upfront opinion, what else? likes and dislikes?
I'd be happy to give you a critique but it might help to know what effect you were going for - I had assumed that the 'scan lines' were due to the compression but that may not be the case. Whether I like or dislike it as a piece is not particularly useful, its just my opinion - which doesnt count for a lot
If I know more about what you're trying to do with it, I can give you a more objective and therefore useful critique.... hope that makes sense to you.
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2006, 03:34 PM
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nancy,

re the white space. i'll say two things here. one, your art teacher is one opinion, even if he is a teacher. and two, it is water 'color', not water 'white'. ok, so i just happen to differ from your art teacher. i like color.

as to the rest, the paper and so on, i'm a novice in water color, so i appreciate the explanation. i figured that might be the case with the papers...that i dont really know that much about it, so, ok on that one.

and re the texture, that also would depend on the paper type, so ok. but on adding it in after it is done, that can be on a separate layer and blend modes without ruining the work. but, it was just a suggestion and again a matter of taste. i dont paint, so i dont know and if you're going for something other than my fixed idea on what is a water color, then i certainly understand.

and again, just my fixed idea of what water color is, i've just always associated the bleeding effect with water colors, so i stand corrected

on my own work, all i was going for there was a 'rain on a sunny day' look with just a bit of brightening of colors and sharpening.

and actually, to me, i'm MUCH more interested in if you like it or dislike it as opposed to a clinical critique. and to that, i would then want to know what you like and dislike about it. so, the goal here isnt just the effect on the 'canvas', it's the effect on the person. that's what motivates me. my 'perfect' picture is the one where i go 'wow!' or if it's my work, someone else goes 'wow!'. that's what makes my day

craig
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2006, 05:40 PM
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OK. If I'm completely honest, I dont like it. To me it looks like a frame from a badly pirated VHS (particularly the second version, the added colour looks like random distortion).
I think the scanlines are distracting ad your attempt to 'brighten the colours' has left them blown out and cold rather than bright and warm, which is what I assume you would be going for.
I think the rain droplets arent right for the piece either, they're too dense and large to be light rain drops on a sunny day and their shape position dont fit with the picture.
Overall I think if you wanted something expressive, theres too much of the original in there but its too distorted to be considered realism.

Just because I dont like it doesnt mean its bad. Art is like that.

More generally sharpening seems to be your new favorite 'tool'. I've noticed in a lot of your work lately (not just photoart) that it is oversharpened causing bad artifacting. I prefer highpass overlay to USM because it avoids any artifacting, particularly if applied only on the Luminosity.
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  #18  
Old 03-17-2006, 10:36 PM
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nancyj,

fascinating. i'm surprised you even noticed the scan lines. at 100% zoom i hardly see them. actually, they are a result of the sharpening process, a new filter i've been trying out.

on the colors, i wasnt really going for bright and warm. the original is bright and warm. i wanted heightened, sharp and vivid.. so ok.

and the rain, i tend to agree with you. that one is new to me and i've been experimenting with all sorts of things. i'll work on that one. though, the rain i was referring to the other day was a rare one. the sun was out and rain came down in big drops, widely spaced. i've only seen it this way a few times in my life.

as for the over-sharpening in other pieces, all i can say is i'm still working on that process. this also goes for the 'blown out' colors. the on-going sharpening experiment is a sort of looking for process. there is a certain look i'm trying to achieve, that heightened, sharpened, vivid look. and, like you pointed out, there is a danger there of added noise and artifacting, so still trying to refine that one. apparently, i didnt achieve it here either. oh well, back to the drawing board. i'm afraid the usm in psp is pretty poor. seems to either be all clipping or no effect at all, so i gave up on that one long ago. i do use high pass, but it's somewhat limited compared to some of the filters i've been playing with.

you asked before what i was trying to achieve, where i was trying to go. when i do the sharpening items, i'm going for pop, something that jumps off the canvas. high contrast, high sharpen, vivid colors usually. something that when you look at it you wish you'd worn filtered glasses

so, fair enough. i asked, you answered. thank you.

craig
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2006, 12:15 AM
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I did this in Deep Paint using the Brush Fade cloner brush.
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2006, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
nancyj,

fascinating. i'm surprised you even noticed the scan lines. at 100% zoom i hardly see them. actually, they are a result of the sharpening process, a new filter i've been trying out.
I thought this was probably the case. This is the problem working digitally, what I see isnt necessarily what you see. There are a number of reasons why they might be very noticeable for me and not to you. I have a 17" TFT screen at 1280x1024 and its probably just over a foot away from me... Your setup will undoubtably be different to mine. And, not trying to be rude, but it may be that my eyesight is better.

Your first attempt I agree with (I think it was) PM that it looks snowy. I'm probably very biased in my opinion, it looks cold and bleak and I'm from yorkshire - I get enough of that looking at the window atm
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