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Snowboard Picture/ Selecting Snow

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  #1  
Old 01-04-2006, 03:04 PM
tos5 tos5 is offline
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Snowboard Picture/ Selecting Snow

Hello All,

i am the new one I am a digital Hobby Photographer and a student who is trying to improve his photoshop skills over "the normal level"
I normally dont do sports photography so this is not my shoot. This picture was posted in a photoforum for criticising it. I did so and thought i could do a little correction. 5 Minutes later i had this one, but with a big problem...the snow behind the boarder.

I started this one by copying the background layer twice and setting the blendmode to multiply. After that another copy and blendmode set to softlight.
This darkens the image and gives the sky some blue...i masked the rest of the picture.
The Problem is that i do not find a proper method to select the snow behind the boarder so that i can add it to the mask. Thats the reason why its so blue (its multiplied twice and softlighted) All i tried is not looking real, because the sky is shinning through the snow.

May you could help me here? How could is select the snow, so that i just have the snow and not the areas around it.
Maybe another method to colorize it white?

Here are the Pics:

Original

My Edit

My layers palette


Thank you very much!
Alex
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  #2  
Old 01-04-2006, 04:37 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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tos5,

wecome to RP

the problem isnt a problem of color. the problem is one of luminosity...brightness. start over with the original and try 'curves' or 'levels'. use them as adjustment layers, not from the menu directly onto the layer. this will allow you to set and adjust the various steps in the ranges of the luminiosity such that you can make the snow one brightness and the sky another and get that contrast between the two you want.

now, i didnt look that closely at the original, but if the snow and the sky are EXACTLY the same, then the above wont work and you will have to mask one or the other and alter them separately. just mask/select off the area you want to change, say the sky, and use 'contrast/lightness' to alter it directly ON the layer that has the selection/mask. or, use curves or levels the same way.

craig
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2006, 05:40 PM
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Flora Flora is offline
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Hi Alex,

Welcome to RP from me too!!

I agree with Craig ... it's a matter of luminosity ....
The method you used to darken the sky is right ... but, in order to get some colour back in it you had to 'overdo' it, and the snow splash went with it .... I also think you might have overdone the contrast a bit ... You have lost most of the details in the boy's jacket and part of the front house which have become nearly solid black and somehow distracting....

As Craig pointed out it's very difficult to make a mask when there is very little contrast between subject and background, but if your Image manipulation software allows you to work on the channels ... you are nearly home dry ...

Working with Photoshop CS2, I created my mask (attachment 2) using the Levels on the Blue Channel to strongly increase its contrast and refined it using a Black and White brush set to Overlay first and Normal later.

Here is a Tutorial I wrote about making difficult selections using this method.

Hope this helps
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F_IMG_6043.jpg (99.6 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-0065.jpg (66.6 KB, 39 views)
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2006, 12:02 AM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Snow Mask

Hi Alex, You can make a base mask in 2 mins and then finish it by brushing in the rest of the sky with a large black brush and filling the rest with white and inverting the image to produce the final mask. To get to the base stage, create a duplicate image, duplicate the background layer and change the Blend Mode from Normal to Exclusion. Then Image>Adjust Auto Levels. Flatten the image and convert it to LAB mode. Ctrl M to call up the Curves dialog which will open with the L channel by default. Crtl Click two points, the first in the banana shaped piece of snow that is suspended in the sky to the left of the boarder, and the other on a darker green portion of the sky about an inch away. These two points will have sufficient distance separation on the curve to separate very well. Raise the higher point and lower the lower one to significantly boost the contrast. The rest of the mask should be quick and easy to complete. Below is a link to a larger screen shot.

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?pi...lM4KH3TTY64fy1

Regards, Murray
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tos5 Mask Base Thumbnail.jpg (89.6 KB, 29 views)

Last edited by mistermonday; 01-05-2006 at 03:46 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-05-2006, 11:40 AM
tos5 tos5 is offline
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Hi

Thank you very much for welcoming and helping me I´ve chosen this forum here because i´ve seen some of the works and i think there are a lot of people who´re really skilled...


Well..your suggestions. I tried them both and think both methods have pros and cons. I understand the basics but have still a few questions

@Flora: when i use your method with the blue/red channel and the tone adjustment i have the problem that when selecting the mask only the colors black and white were selected...so its a very hard selection with no colors between. light grey or whatever...

Do you know what i mean? Explaining that in non mother language is quite a task :P.
It´s probably the reason why you are using a brush with overlay for refining after that .

Could you explain me how you are doing this exactly?

@murray: a very good method as well. But one thing i am probably to stupid for. how do you use this layer as a mask? i duplicated the lab channel and loaded it as a selection into the picture. Is that allright? Is there a way to use a layer a mask?

I got the same problem here. when loading the selection the grey tones between the big black (high contrast) parts of snow and the sky, where the snow is spraying, is skipped.



I attach my current result again. I think it improved a lot, but could be better
in the parts with the fine spraying snow.
i also corrected the high contrast and brought back some detail into the boarder...there is still a outer glow around him and the roof, gotta overwork that later...
The main focus is on the snow behind the boarder

Thanx so much so far!
regards
Alex

Latest Version
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2006, 01:15 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Snow Mask

Hi Alex, those are good questions. To use the channel as a mask, the easiest way is as follows:
Open a copy of your unmodified image (or the image that you wish to add the mask to). Make sure the laer that you plan to add the mask to is actually a layer. If it is the backgroung you will need to Alt + Double Click it to convert it to a layer. Go to the Channels Tab in the Palette. From the Channel context menu (the little triangle pointing sideways) click and select New Channel. You can give it a name or just leave the default name Alpha Channel. Now click on the new channel to make it active. Next go to the Image Menu and select Image>Apply Image. When the dialog box comes up, choose as a Source, the LAB image that you have prepared and then in the Channel Box make sure it says Lightness (which is the default channel). Now in the destination box the Blend Mode should be Normal and the Opacity should be 100%. Click OK and voila, the L Channel that you worked on will become the new channel you created in you working file. You are almost done. Just Crtl + Click that Channel to load it as a selection. Click on the Layers Tab in the Palette and then click on the layer to which you want to add the mask. Finally just click on the Add Mask Button at the bottom of the Palette and voila again a mask will be added which contains the image in your activated Alpha Channel.

As for refining the mask itself, you can turn the grey into solid black or solid white by painting with a soft brush in Airbrush mode about 50% opacity. After selecting the Brush tool, go to the Tool Options Bar at the top of the screen and click either Midtones, Highlights, or Shadows. This will alow you to brush one color without affecting the other. You can also play with the various Blend modes which will allow you to affect only dark or light pixels or darken or lighten etc.

Regards, Murray
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  #7  
Old 01-06-2006, 05:21 AM
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Flora Flora is offline
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Hi,

Alex,


Quote:
Originally Posted by tos5
Hi

Thank you very much for welcoming and helping me I´ve chosen this forum here because i´ve seen some of the works and i think there are a lot of people who´re really skilled...
... You are welcome ... ... and thank you!

Quote:
@Flora: when i use your method with the blue/red channel and the tone adjustment i have the problem that when selecting the mask only the colors black and white were selected...so its a very hard selection with no colors between. light grey or whatever...

Do you know what i mean? Explaining that in non mother language is quite a task :P.
It´s probably the reason why you are using a brush with overlay for refining after that .

Could you explain me how you are doing this exactly?
PS masks are 'about' black and white ... meaning the strongest contrast you can get between what you want to select and the rest of the picture ....
You are partially right when you say that 'only black or white' get selected .... Actually, even if you don't see it, the grey gets selected as well (according to how much white the grey contains ... meaning 50% grey will get selected with 50% of Mask Opacity ...meaning you won't see the 'selection marching ants' around it, but it still gets selected!!!)

* Attachment 1 : copy of the original Blue Channel ... the arrows point the 'difficult selection' area.

* Attachment 2 : copy of the Blue Channel after my Levels adjustment to increase contrast.

* Attachment 3 : my refined base for the mask .... Yes, I used black and white brush set to Overlay to increase contrast in the 'sky areas' which were still grey, and to further increase the depth of grey in the snow splash I wanted to isolate from the sky ... then, I changed my brush to Normal to fill in the slope, trees, and snowy roof.

* Attachment 4 : to show the parts which apparently were only selected.

* Attachment 5 : I put my selection on a pure black Layer to show how much more had actually been selected even if my marching ants hadn't shown it ...

Hope this helps ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SNAP-0072.jpg (95.5 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-0073.jpg (97.6 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-0074.jpg (74.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-0075.jpg (94.3 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-0076.jpg (94.5 KB, 14 views)
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2006, 05:51 AM
Flora's Avatar
Flora Flora is offline
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OOOppppssss .... I forgot .... my tutorial on difficult selections has been translated into German as well ... (bearbeitet ... ) .... you can find the German version here:

http://www.sahanya.perun.net/archiv/...ahl-erstellen/

... one more thing ... In both tutorials I didn't mention the 'Overlay' Brush because I hadn't yet heard of this technique....
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