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Your best masking techniques.

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  #31  
Old 10-10-2006, 11:44 PM
Craig Walters's Avatar
Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

ok, there we go. thanks guys.

let me see if i can dig up some past nightmares and see what you can do with these.

craig
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2006, 12:09 AM
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

ok, here's one that was posted in the art forums. i think it from Palms.

this is one where the extraction isnt all about 'around the edges' but also needs to be handled on the internal parts. if you truly want to extract JUST the mimosa here and no background, i find these pretty difficult and i'd love to see how others handle it.

craig

edit: ok, i looked this one up. it was originally posted by janet petty. thanks, janet
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File Type: jpg Mimosa2.jpg (99.6 KB, 63 views)
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  #33  
Old 10-11-2006, 01:15 AM
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Mimosa

I used pretty much the same technique--background eraser plus history brush whenever I screwed up. Lots of changing the BGE settings interactively. I really did this quick-n-sloppy--my sloppines is visible. For a quality result, you really need as large as possible and very low-compression original. The jpeg block artifacts show up real fast when you start erasing.

PSP background eraser is very similar to the PS BGE (in fact it's got a couple extra bells and whistles on it.)

(who's the sadist now? )

Bart
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mimosa2_black.jpg (75.6 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg Mimosa2_white.jpg (72.7 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Mimosa2_color.jpg (77.1 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg Mimosa2_sunset.jpg (75.7 KB, 46 views)

Last edited by bart_hickman; 10-11-2006 at 01:28 AM.
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2006, 01:30 AM
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

that's pretty good, bart. the bge is one of those that i definitely have not mastered. you seem to get pretty good results with it. i'll have to take a look at this thread again tomorrow.

craig
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  #35  
Old 10-11-2006, 08:26 PM
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

Hi all

Just had some time to work... I used the same as before... channeling.. then overly white and black with both the red copy and RGB active.

Butch
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File Type: jpg black1.jpg (93.7 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg white1.jpg (91.8 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg color.jpg (98.2 KB, 27 views)
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  #36  
Old 10-11-2006, 10:13 PM
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Thumbs down Re: Your best masking techniques.

This was my second try on this image with the new EZMask. I literally did this with one hand, while eating a sandwich with the other! I drew green lines over parts of the plants, red over the background (top and bottom areas) and blue over the tips of the plant.

I finished my sandwich in time to type this ;-).

If your browser supports tabs, you can open each of our same-size examples and flip among them. I'd say my quickie is in the middle, quality-wise, of those posted. Further work may improve the results, I'm sure.

PS: I don't represent EZMask--it just seems to be one of the easiest and best masking tools I've tried so far, and I have a bunch of them (see under Selection/Masking here). I do still have to try Background Remover and report back.
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File Type: jpg ezmask.jpg (95.1 KB, 41 views)

Last edited by plugsnpixels; 10-11-2006 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Added info
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  #37  
Old 10-11-2006, 10:32 PM
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Background Remover versus Extract Filter

Quote:
Originally Posted by plugsnpixels
Bart, I've also got Background Remover on hand to add to the site--I need to get to that. As a Mac user I'm a bit slower firing up the Windows plug-ins, but I do run Windows on a MacBook, so...
So I spent about an hour practicing with EZMask and exploring every adjustment and following the tutorial last night on extracting the dead tree, and I don't think that tool is really cut out for that sort of thing. After getting the best I could, I then spent about 15 minutes with the extract filter in photoshop. Neither is as good as 30-40 minutes spent with the background eraser. The PS tool has an advantage in that it can import an alpha channel as a starting point so you have the full power of photoshop available to generate a rough outline of the tree. If the BR could do that, it probably would've helped.

Next I tried the pomeranian. Each tool did differently, but I'd say they were about equal over all. Only spent about 5 minutes on the extract filter and maybe 10 minutes with the EZmask (EZmask requires a little bit more manual painting than extract on these difficult ones). You don't want to split hairs (hee hee) when two results are close like this because the difference could be due to my lack of skill with it--that's why I just call it a tie even though the extract filter is a bit more to my liking in this case.

Imageskill's background remover pretty much bombed on both of these. I also have the trial version of vertus liquid mask and it just looks like a heck of a lot of work for both extractions (the dead tree is just rediculous)--I'm sure the background eraser is less work than liquid mask.

I'm attaching results from DFT's EZmask and Adobe's extract. I must say EZmask is the best challenge for the extract filter I've seen yet. You can tell the EZmask examples because the demo silkscreen covers the result. The EZmask result is a bit blurry--I think this is due to the demo version and the full version would not look like that.

I bet if I was a professional doing tons of fairly easy extractions every day, I'd probably find more benefit in these "magic" tools because they work lickety split on simpler extractions (eg., 1 minute lower skill work versus 2 minutes higher skilled work) which would add up to a real time savings after a few hundred.

Edit: I was using EZMask in the comparison here--don't know why I was thinking background remover.

Bart
Attached Images
File Type: jpg extract_snag_dft.jpg (93.3 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg extract_snag_ps.jpg (91.2 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg zuzu_portraits_lapine_dft.jpg (71.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg zuzu_portraits_lapine_ps.jpg (58.7 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by bart_hickman; 10-12-2006 at 12:36 AM.
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  #38  
Old 10-12-2006, 12:52 AM
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

this is good, guys. interesting results and interesting reading.

bart, i tried the psp bge again last night and today. basically, i still suck at it. you keep touting it and i keep looking at the thing and going, 'yeah, right'. but, i'm also fairly sure it 'must be the operator' from how you've promoted it.

so, what's the trick? got a good tut stashed somewhere? it seems slow and clumsy and sloppy to me so far but when i look at your results....

craig
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  #39  
Old 10-12-2006, 01:59 AM
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plugsnpixels

If your browser supports tabs, you can open each of our same-size examples and flip among them. I'd say my quickie is in the middle, quality-wise, of those posted. Further work may improve the results, I'm sure.
I agree that looks pretty good although there's some of the white background still left and when I tried it (EZmask) I couldn't get it as good as yours--in particular, the white background in the upper left wasn't removed at all whereas it's all gone in yours (I experimented with different markings and sensitivity settings.) Also, while mine looked good on black, it looked over-erased on white.

Definitely better than the photoshop extract in this case.

Bart
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  #40  
Old 10-12-2006, 02:26 AM
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Re: Your best masking techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraellin
that's pretty good, bart. the bge is one of those that i definitely have not mastered. you seem to get pretty good results with it. i'll have to take a look at this thread again tomorrow.

craig
I tried it in PSP and it works just as well as in PS (PSE also has the BGE.) I'm attaching about 10 minutes work. I think the main parameters are keep sharpness low, sampling = "once", limits = "discontiguous", auto tolerance. The center of the BGE brush samples the background and the perimeter of the brush samples the foreground.

So you go near the perimeter of the flower and click with a fat brush so that the center of the brush is over background and the flower intersects the edge of the brush somewhere. PSP analyzes the color differential and automatically sets tolerance. Now you can drag back and forth over a pretty large area and remove a bunch of background--even the stuff inside the flower. Pick a new place where the BG didn't get erased and do it again.

Maybe I should do a background eraser tutorial for this months contest.

Here's a tutorial on the PSP BGE that might help you:
http://campratty.com/4tooltours/kz/bge1.html

Bart
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