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Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

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  #1  
Old 12-09-2009, 07:14 PM
mike60640 mike60640 is offline
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Question Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Hi everyone,
I have 40 of these clear glass bottles, shot on white sweep. The agency wants them transparent so they can change out the background. And they want a reflection of the bottle below. I wanted to get some ideas on how others might...

• Create layered image from this one, that is transparent in all the right places, maintaining white highlights and shadows AND possibly color highlights existing in original.

• Flip and distort image to be used as table reflection. I've tried Warp settings and it just can't get the edges to curve down. I tried Shear as well (after having to rotate entire image, stupid filter), but same result.

I've also got 40 to do so I might automate some of this. Any help would be great. -Mike
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File Type: jpg Glass-Bottle.jpg (74.5 KB, 85 views)
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:08 PM
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seattle-light seattle-light is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Dear mike 60640...

The agency wants them transparent so they can change out the background?

Of course, you and they realize that if they want to put it over a different background that the refracted light, the light reflecting off of the glass and the apprent color of the glass are all going to be different. You can't just put it over any background and set it to multiply and expect it to be convincing.

In order to do it convincingly, you'll need to create a separate layer for the reflected highlights so that they can shine as the clear glass multiplies over the background. Those highlights are complicated and are going to be rather hard to fake. Having the image shot on white also doesn't help you to separate the highlight reflections from the clear glass. Maybe you can get some of this out of using different exposures in the RAW conversion of the images.

Would probably work better to shoot the glass once on a black background and use that set to screen for all the reflections and shoot it again on a white background and use that set on multiply for the glass's depth and darkness. Then you could put it over different background colors with some degree of believability.

For the adapting the reflections you can use a displacement map that is lighter in the center and darker at the outside edges (a centered gradient) so that it will move the center down more than the outsides.

It will take some fiddling to figure out the values and the exact amount of vertical displacement to make it affect the flipped image to match the curve of the bottom edge, but it should be an interesting exercise. You should make the reflection fade out and blur as it gets further away (because you may be able to get the bottom of the jar -- top of the reflection to nest properly with the bottom of the original jar -- but the top of the jar is completely out of the perspective that we would be seeing it in the reflection, as we'd be able to see the front and back of the lip of opening in an oval.

If you shot the jar upside down on black and white from the perspective that it would be seen in a reflection...

Probably better to shoot it on a reflective sheet. Again the reflected image is going to have the same kinds of problems when you change the background. Might make sense to shoot it on a glossy black background and on a glossy white background, but then you'd probably get alignment issues in that the reflections wouldn't be precisely aligned due to the different sheets being used.

Changing the background convincingly behind complex glass objects can be a vexxing challenge.

Good luck with that. Looking forward to seeing results.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:19 PM
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seattle-light seattle-light is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Dear mark60640...

Pretty cold in Chicago, eh?

I'm sure I'm overthinking this one. But the physics of glass over white and glass over gray and glass over black are quite different.

Probably better to ignore all this and give them a nice set of jars with simple fadeout reflections. Eventually they'll figure out that they can't convincingly swap out the backgrounds without doing some fairly intense work to make the highlights work.

It all depends on what they're doing with the art and what kind of quality/level of realism they need.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:32 PM
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MiningArt MiningArt is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Select background, place image in normal mode, inverse selection, copy jar, place image in darken mode, paste jar image in multiply mode with shadow enabled.

I tried several different combination's and the effect is a little different with each.
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File Type: jpg Glass-Bottle-MA.jpg (188.2 KB, 98 views)
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:13 PM
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seattle-light seattle-light is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Dear MiningArt...

That's great for the darkening part of the glass, but at the very least you're going to need to create the reflected highlights to make it convincing. A glass jar doesn't just darken or multiply over the world behind it.

This is really rough and rudimentary. Not even pretending that it's good, just to quickly illustrate that it needs highlights and bright reflections to make it work. And that's not even going into what the glass would do to distort the image behind it.

Hope you are doing well. Take care. Alan.
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File Type: jpg JAR.jpg (144.4 KB, 72 views)
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:33 AM
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Hope I added just the right amount of reflections and frost. Just add you own backdrop (has embedded transparancies).

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6241/glassbottle.png
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:15 AM
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MiningArt MiningArt is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

I guess to be really convincing a 3d rendering would serve best? I didn't do the reflection of the bottle below as it would be the same as using the original bottle.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:34 AM
mike60640 mike60640 is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Thanks guys.

Yes, glass is complicated with it's reflections and doing this can't be done totally automatic. But in advertising they want what they want and they only have what they have to work with. I doubt I will be getting separate shots with different backgrounds. At most I can hope for is a darker exposure.

I also tried out Displace Maps. Never played with them before and forgot they were there. The results were not very smooth. No matter how I created a gradient, or blurred it, or even added a touch of noise to get rid of banding... the results were not totally smooth curves. I may keep trying. I ended doing hand smooting with Liquify.

I had an idea of what to do before posting and here is a test shot and some of the action steps i used. Basicly using the images own luminosity to generate a highlight and a shadow layer. Starting with the bottles trimmed away from background ( I left small chunks of bkgd in each corner so all the pasting would keep the layers registered)

- copied entire image, switch to QuickMask, fill with blk and paste.
- use curves to darken QMask (so only highest highlights are white)
- Exit QMask, new layer set to screen, fill with white

- deselect
- switch to QMask, fill with blk and paste, then Invert
- use curves to darken QMask (so what were the darkest areas are now white)
- Exit QMask, new layer set to multiply, fill with blk
- deselect

*** now all that can be scripted (if all the images are similar exposure)

After that I brushed back in some portions of the original bottle with a layer mask. And played with the opacity of the highlight and shadow layers. What do you think?
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File Type: jpg Glass-Bottle2.jpg (92.5 KB, 90 views)
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:45 AM
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MiningArt MiningArt is offline
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Mike60640, that looks pretty good to me.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:49 AM
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Re: Make Glass Bottle See Through, add Reflection

Quote:
Originally Posted by lkroll View Post
Hope I added just the right amount of reflections and frost. Just add you own backdrop (has embedded transparancies).

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6241/glassbottle.png
Lyle, that looks a lot more like a jar, the original images are pretty flat.

Alan, thanks for the tips. I distorted the view through the glass and added the reflection at the bottom.
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File Type: jpg Jar-MA.jpg (193.4 KB, 71 views)

Last edited by MiningArt; 12-10-2009 at 02:37 AM.
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