Comments and critique needed..

[Charles_cz]

Hi guys, I need some trained eye to give me and input on following composite. I am starting to learn to do composites.
I find it challenging to see all aspect of making realistic composite and I am pretty sure that you can give me some suggestions on making it better or more realistic.

Unfortunately the original picture suffered from camera shake. Also important part of legs is missing. I used other pictures of same horse to fix that. I did some work on mane and tail as well.

Background picture picture has some selective blur otherwise no changes.

Please let me know what you think. I will appreciate you input.

Here is composite picture.

Thanks Charles

[Charles_cz]

One thing I did not do and I was not sure if I should is a shadow.. Is that something I should add?

[Tony W]

I think that you need to look a little closer at both pictures as the thing that jarred a little for me was the fact that lighting direction is different for both images.

The original the light source was from the right of picture and in the background shot the light is from left of picture. This I think made it look 'not quite right' - perhaps consider flipping either background or horse horizontally?

Looking closely at the horse it does appear to be floating a little over the background particularly the near foreleg. It may work to just disguise the hoof with a little cloned grass? although you will need to take into account how a horse moves its legs in relation to each other.

I also think that a better and more convincing blend could be made between horse and background - maybe a very subtle softening of the horse outline?

Shadow may not be needed after other changes made.

Hope I have not come across as too critical I do actually like what you have done so far and I am sure that you will 'fine tune' the image to get a truly convincing look

[Charles_cz]

Tony, never too critical.. Absolutely right about the light. I needed my horse to go uphill. ;-) Maybe I need to take picture of the background in the morning to get the shadows right. It is in my backyard and it will be easier than try to fix it in PS.

I think it would look unbalanced if I try to flip background or horse for that matter. I'll try it anyway to see how it looks and feels.

Good point about the near foreleg. In matter of fact I think the hoof is in wrong position and should be flat on the ground. I will change the hoof for sure. I think I can find "new part".

I also think that a better and more convincing blend could be made between horse and background - maybe a very subtle softening of the horse outline?

Does the outline looks too sharp/cut out like? Would you do entire outline of body? Maybe just head? I guess I can just on on horse mask a little bit.

Thanks and please be critical. That helps and that is what I asked for..

Charles

[Tony W]

Charles,
If you can retake background and get a nearer match to the lighting on the original it will make compositing much easier and more convincing - nice backyard BTW .

You may be right about unbalanced if you flip either horse or background and of course your horse will be going down hill !

My first thoughts about the 'cut out' look may not be absolutely correct. Your original image shows the horse very well defined against the white fence. While on your composite with the horse against a much darker background it does seem to look a little pasted in. The effect may be just exaggerated by the difference in light angle and the lightness of the background or even the degree of background blurring.

You may find with a background retake that all is well. You could prove it to yourself by increasing the contrast of this background to ease the transition and see if it looks better - I think I would keep the grass as is and just work on the trees. With any luck you will not need to blend horse outline

[Charles_cz]

Tony,
I am sure light direction plays important role in overall feel of the picture. I will re-take background picture with different light direction. I will post picture once I do that with other corrections so we can compare them.It's fun to see how small changes can make a lot of difference.

Thanks Charles

[Charles_cz]

Ok.. second try. I feel like I have improved the composite comparing to first version.

Changes as follows:

1. I took new background picture. This time with light closer to original horse light conditions. Background light was soft morning light. I like the light much better comparing to old background light. Never mind it was coming from wrong direction.

2. I have corrected hoofs to be where they are supposed to be and adjusted horse so it doesn't look floating. I hope it has helped.

3. I tried to add a shadow and partially succeeded. Still not really happy with that and help on improving the shadow would be appreciated. Even though it's not perfect I think it helps overall.

4. I've change shadow between hindquarters to make it softer and changed a shape a little. I was trying to make it more like softer light rather than harsh afternoon light.

5. Some work on outline of the horse to make transition from really light background (the original picture) to fairly dark background less noticeable.

How did I do? Better? What would improve this composite as far as PP goes?

Please let me know

Thanks Charles

[Tony W]

An image would be nice Charles

[Charles_cz]

Opss... I gues that would help... LOL

Here it is..

You can view the picture in different sizes..


Sorry about it... Thanks Tony for letting me know.. ;-)

[Tony W]

For me it looks to be a big improvement on the first one.

Maybe being picky here but..
The long shadow on the grass does not look quite right it may be that it is a tree shadow however I feel it is too strong and if it is one that you have added maybe too large. I think it would benefit by reducing the density by a good margin maybe 40-60%.

Please keep in mind that I know next to nothing about horse anatomy
The leading foreleg looks good but the others dont quite match, hooves for instance and the trailing leg still has a pasted in look.

Would it look correct by copying the foreleg hoof and pasting onto each of the other legs after rotating sizing?

[Charles_cz]

Tony,
I was not sure about the shadow. There is in indeed original shadow of tree that was behind the camera. I agree that it is probably too much.
You are absolutely right about hoof inconsistencies. I think I am happy with shape except trailing leg. I think I found the reason why it looks like it doesn’t belong there. I think the original picture I took the hoof from was shot from different angle. I could make a big difference in shape. Also leading foreleg doesn’t match color wise.
I will try to correct these great observations you pointed out to me and I will come back to show version 3.
I really appreciate your input. BEING PICKY is good and important for something like this I think. Thanks! Charles

[Charles_cz]

Almost there? ;-)

I did a few small changes today.

1. Hooves - some color changes especially the leading foreleg to match it better with the rest.
2. Trailing leg is the tricky part for me. I've made it smaller and some other small changes. I think it's helped a little bit. Question is if it is enough.
3. Shadow - I've eliminated par of it, reduced the density as well. Original tree shadow is still there. It's part of the original background. Too distracting or just original shadow that should stay there?

What do you think Tony? It looks like we are only two in this section lately. I think I did a big jump from first version thanks to your input.

Here is the version 3.

Thanks Charles

[Tony W]

I think you are right Charles - almost there. Problem is always to know when to stop and sometimes just taking a break (if you can afford the luxury!) and returning later can reveal shortcomings you just did not spot in the first round.

I agree you have made a big jump from the first try and its is looking better each time. Regardless of what I and others may think, do you feel you have gone as far as you want/need with this?

Hope you do not mind but I have made a couple of tweaks to your last image (will happily delete if I am out of order!) which to my mind make it a little more believable.

1. The background shadows in the forest looked too weak and washed out IMO and not in line with the more contrasty horse. Therefore I darkened this area down quite a bit which I hope makes the horse blend a little more realistically?

2. The hind leg where it crossed the tree seem to have too strong a black outline. I cloned from the horse over the outline to blend in.

Finally the shadows under the hooves need I think to be darkened to more 'ground' the horse - particularly the rear.

[Charles_cz]

Originally Posted by Tony W

Regardless of what I and others may think, do you feel you have gone as far as you want/need with this?

I am close I think. It's for me. So there is no rush or need to get it done. It's first one I am trying to really make as real as possible.

Originally Posted by Tony W

Hope you do not mind but I have made a couple of tweaks to your last image (will happily delete if I am out of order!) which to my mind make it a little more believable.

Not at all.. I'll be happy to see your take on that and feel free to do that in the future.


1. The background shadows in the forest looked too weak and washed out IMO and not in line with the more contrasty horse.

Agreed - Now, should decide to print it out (it's our horse after all), should I go as far as you did. It looks like all detail from woods is gone should go somewhere in the middle. I guess I should try to print it out. I just wonder what would look better on print. My old Epson 2200 needs to do some work. ;-)



2. The hind leg where it crossed the tree seem to have too strong a black outline. I cloned from the horse over the outline to blend in.

I see what you are saying... I might be able to lighten it up a little to blend it in better.


Finally the shadows under the hooves need I think to be darkened to more 'ground' the horse - particularly the rear.


Shadows - that is something that will take time to master. I can tell. :-(

Great job Tony, thanks for your time! Charles

[Just Kit]

I'm not qualified to give critique but I just want to say omg the ones in the snow are yum! There is nothing more beautiful than horses in the snow. lovely shots! Now I'm gonna read all the tips above.

[Charles_cz]

Originally Posted by Just Kit

I'm not qualified to give critique but I just want to say omg the ones in the snow are yum! There is nothing more beautiful than horses in the snow. lovely shots! Now I'm gonna read all the tips above.

Thanks for kind words.. Charles