any resources for expert level?

[bacorreo]

Hi,

it's my first post here, so I just want to say hello and right away ask a question.

I'm looking for some DVD's or any other resources that will help me develop my skill in (really) expert photo manipulation. I've got pretty big experience in photoshop (like 10 years) and still want to squeeze the most out of it

I saw large parts of material served by Karl Taylor's DVD "Photo retouching secrets" recently and unfortunately was a bit disappointed about it. Don't want to be misunderstood, it's really well prepared (despite some minor misunderstandings like his method of selecting objects) and could be helpful to many intermediate but unluckily I didn't learn anything new.

I'm looking for real expert tips to extreme photo manipulation, not only packshot or beauty retouching but even surrealistic manipulation. What I'm looking for should cover some of the topics like advanced lighting effects (light painting), extreme skin retouching, making light sources from the scratch etc.

Are there any resources that you can recommend?
Maybe one of the cd's by Natalia Taffarel will do?


Thanks a lot
Bartek

[deckitout]

I have just ordered Natalia's DVD, not arrived yet but I have high expectations. Calvin Hollywood DVD I also enjoyed and learnt some good stuff and good value does cover lighting techniques. I also have the composoting DVD from slickforce which I feel is overpriced but quite good is that's your interest. I to looked at Karl Taylors trailer but IMO not in the same league for top end retouching techniques compared to Natalia Taffarel. Gry Garness also has a DVD and ebooks, her CS5 ebook is very detailed.
I have also covered some stuff on Lynda.com for advanced blending which was pretty good as well.
Hope that helps

[bacorreo]

Deckitout, thanks for all the resources! I will check them out asap. Found few trailers on youtube with Gry Garness and it looks much better than Taylor's for me, and of course I totally forgot about Lynda.com. Thanks one more time.

Any other resources anyone?

[Tony W]

Hi Bartek
I suggest you check out some of the following as a starting point - there should be something of interest.
Kelby Training http://www.kelbytraining.com/
Deke McClelland http://www.deke.com/dekevideo

And of course the many interesting threads and tutorials on this site!

[skydog]

If you want to learn manipulation, start with Steve Caplin's books and videos on this site. One hell of a manipulator with PS...he knows PS...if you know what Steve knows ...you can then write your own book.

[bacorreo]

thanks one more time. Appreciate your help!

[Calvinhollywood]

You can find videotrainings of steve caplin here
http://www.video2brain.com

[garnet01]

I wouldn't waste your time and money with dvd's, go to a retouching studio and pester them until they give you work experience. It's the only real way you'll learn the industry.

[Fostercat]

Originally Posted by garnet01

I wouldn't waste your time and money with dvd's, go to a retouching studio and pester them until they give you work experience. It's the only real way you'll learn the industry.

yes. what he said. get a job and learn what you can't find in tutorials, books, dvd and videos. cut masks for a year.

[skydog]

Originally Posted by garnet01

I wouldn't waste your time and money with dvd's, go to a retouching studio and pester them until they give you work experience. It's the only real way you'll learn the industry.

Completely agree...be extremely selective if you decide to purchase a DVD series..do your research. Few are worth the money.

[nebulaoperator]

I am coming to an end of Gry Garness . As someone mentioned above it is quiet detailed, plenty of useful material. From basic retouching to quiet advanced level. This book covers a lot of manipulation material, here I am talking about body manipulation and what tool to use for a different task, what is important in the photo and what does not serve to it. i have bought this book about a month ago and still going back and forward in the ebook to get most of it. Ahh and also there is also quiet a few short videos included in the ebook. I was surprised there a lot of them.
..and it is nothing about creating artificial light.

Someone recently dropped a link to a very wonderful site packed with manipulations from scratch:http://www.tutzor.com/
nebula

[ftp-Jeff]

You will not learn much from DVD's.... The real high end retouchers, have a lot of work, and do not have time to do DVD's.

Save money, find a retoucher with a lot of clients, high end work and a great folio. Spend a couple of weeks with him.... You will learn all you need to know. Expect to pay, but you have to speculate to accumulate!

Good luck,

Jeff

[Instantclassic]

PSD Tuts is really good if you pay 9 for one month it allows you to have a premium account and you can download any tutorial.

[freezehead]

I think photo manipulation is difference from beauty retouching, it concentrates more on composition, lighting, ... and if you had big experience in Photoshop what you need is your imagination you have base on your knowledge, your experience in life. I think watching DVD's of someone is to see how they use Photoshop to transform their imagination to picture , they will inspire you. When I see some fantastic photomanipulation, I though how they can create such an beautiful image, then I watched the tut and saw that image is created base on simple steps in Photoshop . You already had experience of Photoshop, you need the imagination

[ftp-Jeff]

You are missing a BIG point here.... You HAVE to give the client what HE wants. Not what you want!

Now... There are two types of top retouchers... There are the technical retouchers, and there are the creative retouchers. All of the retouchers I have trained over the years, have all gone on to be very successful. But I have always looked where their path should lead.. Tech. or creative? Once I have found that out, I can then help them on their way.

I am very fortunate, but I have worked hard over the years. I retouched, I was very good in the darkroom, I have 3 years photographic qualifications from college, and I am artistic. BUT I HAVE WORKED HARD AT THESE.

Anyone can cut, paste, clone and blend... You have to give it that extra, that X-Factor.. This could be artistic, technical, or both! Once you have these tools, then you have confidence.

If you have confidence, and knowledge... Then you will make it. Good luck.

I have just landed a Big Redken job..... But I am working on a rather nasty clown at the same time... Clown is not digital, I am painting onto a license plate for a client. See? these two art forms go hand in hand!

Here is my nasty clown.... Just started roughing it out... A LONG way to go yet.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...6/c86dfe9e.jpg

[bart1986]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

You are missing a BIG point here.... You HAVE to give the client what HE wants. Not what you want!

Now... There are two types of top retouchers... There are the technical retouchers, and there are the creative retouchers. All of the retouchers I have trained over the years, have all gone on to be very successful. But I have always looked where their path should lead.. Tech. or creative? Once I have found that out, I can then help them on their way.

I am very fortunate, but I have worked hard over the years. I retouched, I was very good in the darkroom, I have 3 years photographic qualifications from college, and I am artistic. BUT I HAVE WORKED HARD AT THESE.

Anyone can cut, paste, clone and blend... You have to give it that extra, that X-Factor.. This could be artistic, technical, or both! Once you have these tools, then you have confidence.

If you have confidence, and knowledge... Then you will make it. Good luck.

I have just landed a Big Redken job..... But I am working on a rather nasty clown at the same time... Clown is not digital, I am painting onto a license plate for a client. See? these two art forms go hand in hand!

Here is my nasty clown.... Just started roughing it out... A LONG way to go yet.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...6/c86dfe9e.jpg

This totally depends on who your client is, and how the photo will be used. I've watched a lot of Amy Dresser shows here on retouchpro and i'm still amazed by her numbness to theory and technical stuff. It really gets me confused if she tells me the pictures will be printed OK while she is doing her screen calibration by eye-balling it. I supposse she will send it to a printing lab and let them deal with the printing trouble she has introduced.

Though i think you will NEED creativity you always have to know what the output will be and retouch with that in mind. Especially when it comes to color.

The extra X-factor doesnt come from the retouch, the extra X-factor comes from the photography/lighting and you can make the X-factor even bigger with the retouch. Garbage times Garbage = even more garbage.

[ftp-Jeff]

Don't know who Amy Dresser is. Yes it can come from the photography/lighting Colour theory... That's what I said..... Technical

The other is the creative artistic retoucher.

If you have both, then you will do very well.

[garnet01]

Any decent retoucher will have a large format printer with some setup like GMG, it should be as standard as buying photoshop, why should the print lab deal with your incompetence.

This thread seriously should have stopped at ftp jeff's reply;

"Save money, find a retoucher with a lot of clients, high end work and a great folio. Spend a couple of weeks with him (or her jeff, remember our mutual friend).... You will learn all you need to know. Expect to pay, but you have to speculate to accumulate!"

The people behind these DVD are not the top retouchers, looking at some of their portfolios I can't tell if they are professionals or hobbyists.

[ftp-Jeff]

Sorry.... Some of the best retouchers I have trained were female... They always have a better approach. Even in the old days before digital!

[garnet01]

less computer geeky.
You missing the summer on the tubes?
Gareth

[ftp-Jeff]

I stopped using the tube Gareth, I would get the train into london, then walk the rest.

The tubes were disgusting! It was £4 to go one stop...

Here they are cleaner, and I can go right across the city on a Streetcar and subway for $3!

[garnet01]

yea?
Well I bet you don't have starbucks out there!

[ftp-Jeff]

Starbucks are here.... But Tim Hortons is a 1000 times better. And you don't have them!

[stefandb]

Natalia and Gry Garness....well worth getting.
And compositing, lighting and re-lighting.....? try Dylan Cole at the Gnomon Workshop..His advanced matte painting one is fantastic....!! (Alex !, do I get a commission for this ? )

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/sto...f-dylan-cole-3


Steve Caplin's book is great !
Karl Taylor's DVD's are fun to watch...but that's about it for me. Of course they sure have their value, but it just wasn't what I was looking for.
Kelby training is certainly worth a try too..very good stuff.

But indeed..nothing beats working in "the real world" when you're talking about "secrets", workflows etc.

[clarknj]

Originally Posted by ftp-Jeff

Starbucks are here.... But Tim Hortons is a 1000 times better. And you don't have them!

Seconded for Timmies!!

[ftp-Jeff]

Do Haynes do a manual for a Maclaren F1?

[garnet01]

No but they do the Redbull
http://www.haynes.co.uk/redbull/