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Photo Restoration Repairing damaged photos

cities2forest

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  #21  
Old 08-11-2005, 04:27 PM
doonee doonee is offline
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racc
in terms of hosting, size is not a problem ....
(ill send you a url/pw)

what i meant was that you have to be regged with TG
in order to use larger than 1024x1024 terrains ....

or would you like me to export a BMP from TG as DEM ?

rgds + thnks
d
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  #22  
Old 08-11-2005, 06:41 PM
Racc Iria's Avatar
Racc Iria Racc Iria is offline
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Quote:
what i meant was that you have to be regged with TG
in order to use larger than 1024x1024 terrains ....

or would you like me to export a BMP from TG as DEM ?
I guess just export the BMP if I understand you correctly. With this one I just wanted to take a look at the 2D grayscale image of the height/elevation data.

With the other images I'm interested to see if I can do what it is I think you're wanting. That way, I'll have a better understanding of your task.

--Racc
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2005, 07:45 PM
doonee doonee is offline
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sure.

ill get you a representative kit.
(mind that the Terragen route is just one route, and that it principal purpose is to fake the POV of the reference pic)

and thanks for all the effort. !!

rgds
d
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2005, 07:56 AM
doonee doonee is offline
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craig.

here is a sample of how the region looks today.
its not always that bad, and there is an issue of seasonality as well. however, historical and biological data suggest that the region was once covered by a closed-canopy seasonal forest, and that hidrogeography, strongly altered by open air mining, was different from today (the watercycle was more voluminous).
Whatever.
Hope this gives you a feel.

Mind, as i said before, that the TerraGen approach is 'inherited' from experimenting with 3D apps, and by all means not imperative for a Photoediting approach.

For example, when working the Terragen road on this pic, i would first try to mimic the exact POV of this reference pic.
But the same thing that sacc said before about the distant haze in the final - that its easier to turn 'distant haze' off in Terragen than trying to remove it from the render- also goes for mimicking the POV in most cases:
Its of course easier to get to work directly on the reference pic than coming up with the effort to mimick its POV in TG, which, at best, gives you nothing better but same.

So, the point is that, if i knew how, i would go and paste my forests straight onto this reference pic i posted just now.

I could show you some of my forest footage, i you like, to give you a better idea of *what* i mean to paste into these pics.


TG comes in when you would want to alter the landscape, glaciate it for instance.
Or, when you want a POV that you dont have a reference-picture of, which is something i have learned to try to keep my hands away from for this project. As fantastic the POVs are that I can produce, people have a hard time recognizing them, for whatever reason. (They dont take too many planes, i guess. Or they dont look out of the window if they do, who knows.)

Terragen is also very valuable when it comes to faking Satellite Imagery, since it allows you to make 'your own' orthographic sat pics, which then one could go on to manipulate and retexture. (But i did not get to this - yet.)

rgds + thnks 4 all
d
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File Type: jpg after.jpg (50.9 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by doonee; 08-12-2005 at 08:04 AM. Reason: grammar grammar
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2005, 07:58 AM
doonee doonee is offline
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@ racc
we're having rain and power cuts down here,
but ill get you your kit today

(mind that i cant include the POv if i send you a BMP)


d
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2005, 10:14 AM
Racc Iria's Avatar
Racc Iria Racc Iria is offline
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Okay, I think we're talking in circles here. I think we're all talking about the same thing but using different terminology. And I think it's making things overly complicated. So, let me state what my understanding of the situation is and feel free to correct me if and where I'm wrong.

Here goes...

Doonee, you're doing some work for the Brazillian Historical Society and want to show how the landscape has changed over the years due to deforestation, expansion, and construction, etc. To accomplish this you want to have a series of before and after pictures of the landscape to indicate just how much things have changed. In collecting the images for this series you discovered that in some instances you had both historical photographs and modern photographs from the same or similar points of view. And with the historical photos you do have, you'd like to restore/colorize them so they more closely match the modern photos.

On the other hand, you also discovered that in many instances all you had were modern photographs and no historical images from the same point of view. So, to that end you want to "re-create" the historical photos by either altering the modern photo to look as it would have had a historical photo been taken from that same point of view, or using a 3D application such as MAX, Terragen, or Vue51 to generate the base photo and add historical vegetation to it (taken from other photographic sources) and getting as close to photorealism as possible.

Let me know if I have summarized the situation correctly. If so, I have a few more questions, and based on the answers may be able to make a few suggestions that would simplify the task.

--Racc
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  #27  
Old 08-12-2005, 10:56 AM
doonee doonee is offline
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@racc
i sent you private msg with the pw to download a file.
rgds
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  #28  
Old 08-12-2005, 11:19 AM
doonee doonee is offline
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racc

-didn't see your post before posting my last msg., sorry-

Quote:
You want to have a series of before and after pictures.
Yes, leave out the Brazilian Historical Society, and you summarized the rest so well that it hardly needs any addition.

Theres only two things Id feel like adding.

1
Usually people do not take photographs before they deforest a landscape, nor did they paint pictures in past times. Therefore, visual documentation of these changes is usually very scarce.
Also, without storing their memory in visual art etc., people tend to forget
rather quickly, hence the general fascination for old pictures etc..
Ive noticed that any single one of these graphics creates a comparatively larger impact than 50 sentences written about the subject, provided that this graphic is percieved as depicting a particular location, ie that it is 'recognized'.
Why, because it gets the fantasy of the person going.
I think this is a great example of visual communication, i wouldnt like to miss that in my work, and i dont care too much which application i use to get there.

2
The work extends back to times before photographs and even paintings.
The DEM approach is therefore choosen in an attempt to create a pipeline for a fairly wide range of different kinds of images, as some of the forested areas were wastelands during the ice age, for example. Recognizable POVs in these
cases are less important and less probable, but still interesting in terms of visual communication. Anyways, this goes to explain how DEM work got into the story in the first place.

Quote:
I think we're all talking about the same thing but using different terminology.
I was wondering about this as well.
But you said you wanted a DEM, right ?

regards and thanks !

d

Last edited by doonee; 08-12-2005 at 11:40 AM.
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  #29  
Old 08-12-2005, 02:19 PM
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Racc Iria Racc Iria is offline
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Okay. First let me say that I currently work in the TV/video production field as a graphic artist. But, I have also worked as videographer, photographer, editor, director, etc. So, the following questions may sound a little silly, but are typical production type questions.

I completely agree with you... visuals have a tremendous impact when it comes to getting the message across. Nothing can communicate an idea or concept clearer or faster than a good image (moving or still).

The task you have before you is quite daunting, even when you have a good command of the proper tools to use. It won't be easy.

1. So, my first questions is this... How important is it really to have absolute photorealism in the recreated historical photos? The reason I ask this is because in my industry we face the same type of situation all the time. We'll want to document something, but there is no visual record available and no way to shoot it. The typical solution here is to generate an animation or artistist's rendering when actual imagery doesn't exist or can't be obtained. You see this a lot, especially with scientific analysis. So, in your situation where you don't have historical photos, wouldn't an artististic rendering be acceptable, especially if based on real data and research?

2. Concerning the recognizability of the landscape... (and you may have thought of this) What if you were to present the more recognizable modern image first, then present them with the historical image (real or recreated)? I think that this might raise the recognition rate of the historical image since the honus of recognition wouldn't rely so heavily on an unfamiliar landscape. People would be able to pick out the points of similarity much more easily if they start with what they know, and at the same time, it would probably give the historical image even greater impact making your message even stronger. And in reference to question 1, would seem to lessen the need for true photorealism since you wouldn't be relying on the historical photo for that recognition.

3. Concerning the need to have the historical photos look like modern photos... I suppose this would be a matter of personal taste, but would not images that looked historical (aged) have more impact on the viewer? If the two images looked modern, the historical one might be more easily confused with a modern image that was taken at a different location. Whereas an aged historical image might be more of a visual cue that this image is of the same place but represents the past. And following that logic, it would also make the recreations easier because by doing them in grayscale or sepia tone, etc. problems like the blue cast would become less of an issue.

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. These questions are not designed to try and dissuade you from trying to recreate modern looking photorealistic historical images, but rather to help you (and me) think about the message you want to convey and the most impactful way to do it without driving ourselves completely mad in the process. Getting these recreations to look absolutely photorealistically perfect is going to be quite a difficult task, even for a seasoned professional. The question then becomes... is it necessary? If so, we'll do our best. But, if not, then many more options (like some of the above) make themselves available.

--Racc
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  #30  
Old 08-12-2005, 03:13 PM
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Craig Walters Craig Walters is offline
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along with what racc just said, i was thinking a rollover would also be a good way to show the 'before' and 'after', especially if the pov is the same.

another help in things like this, is to make it real to the viewer. if they can see their house or surrounding area as a before and after, it personalizes it for them. a shot of a bare, remote area they know nothing about might get their attention for a small bit, but not like if they can see how things looked before their house or school or place of business was there.

Craig
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