[solitear]

Excellent discussion, Craig! Boy, what you said sure is true... i'm sure most of you have run into situations where someone says one thing, but means another. so, they say they want it restored, but what they really want is a pristine, professionally shot photograph. in other words, they want the restore and the extras. they're just assuming the 'extras' are part of the restore job.

(A little off subject here) I, like others here, have done some work for the Operation Photo Rescue people..... one of the hardest things they ask you to do with the restorations is to 'preserve the FEEL of the picture'..... at times, it was next to impossible to keep myself from using my own dad's hand to replace a hand missing from a damaged photo..... or, not bumping up the saturation to today's saturation......sort of like Stuart on MAD TV "Watch what I can do" ...... but when I thought about it, it is the FEEL of my old photos that means so much to me, too.

(Back on subject) I guess it is a good idea to have a portfolio with original 'picture A' next to a basic restoration of 'picture A' with price and, then, a super duper laser light show version restoration of 'picture A' with it's 'linked to layer' price..... but the artist in me keeps puttin' off that project....

oxox
Beth

[Kraellin]

alison, welcome to RetouchPRO.

nicely done on the restore.

now, to everyone, alison did a good job of restoring here. she didnt add any 'extras'. she simply brought the image back to its original state. that's the definition of restore. and britsdad, not everyone wants the extras. they sometimes only want the original. so, bobjones has it right. you have to ask the customer. what do they need and want?

i used to write custom lyrics for weddings and things like that. very personal stuff. and the real trick was to grill them about what they wanted... what they really wanted! the way i'd do this was to just start asking questions about themselves. i'd get them to tell me stories of themselves and they'd practically write the lyrics for me by telling these stories. all i had to do was arrange them. so, that's just one example of finding out what the customer wants.

you may find yourself doing restores of documents instead of images someday. those wanting document restoration generally want EXACT duplicates of the originals. no frills whatsoever. when i started restoring old family photos, especially old tintypes that were crumpled and faded and worn, it was all i could do to just get the original back and i wouldnt have ever thought of adding on something extra to fit modern photography. it just would have been out of place for those images. and like beth said, there is a certain 'feel' to images, especially dated images. each time period of photographic history has a slightly different look and feel.

but, getting back to alison's image. again, a very nice job of restoring, but it might not 'wow!' the customer. they may have been expecting a fix of the washed out faces. customers dont always know what's possible, or worse, they may think more is possible than is. so, you have to ask. you cant assume. you may assume and be right, but you may also assume and lose the work because you didnt really provide what was wanted.

now, britsdad, when you're doing 'odds and sods' for friends and family, especially if you're going to surprise them with a gift of the finished image, that's a bit different. noone commissioned you more than likely. you simply wanted to wow them. and that's cool. i've done that too. and in those cases i dont ask. it would spoil the surprise. you shld have seen my mother when i restored a picture of her as a baby laid out naked on a rug. lol. boy, was she surprised

i've also seen a wide variety of restores and restore plus extras here on RetouchPRO. and this again isnt commisioned work. folks tend to do the restore plus. it just gets more wows. and that's perfectly acceptable here. but in commisioned work you ALWAYS have to find out exactly what the customer really wants, not necessarily what they first say they want. some will just tell you, 'just make it better' and that's really all they want, but some will say the same thing and mean 'i want the wow!'. so, find out. ask. the old saying about assume is that 'assume' makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.

[Kraellin]

oh, and hi beth good to see you here again

[solitear]

Thanks, Craig....... I've been working on 146 photos and then a slideshow of them...... I sure missed being here.... but I'm glad you 'saved me a seat'!

oxoxo

[Kraellin]

146... wow, why so few? family stuff or business?

and yup, you've always got a seat here

[solitear]

Gosh, Craig..... I've been trying to reply but .... I was gonna try & explain but thought it'd make more sense to see my 'Mom was Morphed' thread..... it has to do with the zillion pictures I've been working on..... man, if they had been for clients...Geeez.... let's see.... at a dollar a picture.... I could've been a zillionaire......

oxoxo's
Beth

[Liz]

Have been reading this very interesting discussion and would like to share in the conversation if I may. I do restoration as an add on to our Kodak Express store. I do my best but I'm also still learning (probably be that way till I'm old and grey . What I've learned about my customers with their old images or poor images is that I need to be respectful and cautious because of their emotional connection to the image they have bought to me. I talk to them about that first. Who is it? What relation are they? (Sometimes have to cut short the biography Then I talk to them about why they are restoring it and what they plan to do with the restored copy. This also gives me an idea of what level restoration they want. So the process of defining their expectations and their needs can take at least 15 minutes.

At the beginning they usually are pretty vague and because I can see somewhat what needs to be done, I can be more specific. This helps them define further what they want. I also explain the process because you'd be surprised how many people think they'll get their old photo back repainted rather than reprinted, or alternatively that you will be working on their original which if I stuff up they'll never see again.

I also have a loupe so that they can see for themselves when I talk about moire or something else and can clearly see the problem of why the image my be slightly sofer when they get it. So they get involved in the process of what I reasonably can do and can't do with their image. Then they get my quote based on THEIR understanding of what I will do.

I'm happy, they're happy, and I don't have any complaints afterwards.
So as far as going the next step, or an add-on. Surely you will do the best job you can with the material you have. The customer is assured that you will within the limitations you have given them.

This beats the...."Can you restore this image" "Yep my cost is such and such per hour" "Well, I don't want to pay that can you just scan it in and copy it? How much is that"

[Alison]

now, to everyone, alison did a good job of restoring here. she didnt add any 'extras'. she simply brought the image back to its original state. that's the definition of restore. and britsdad, not everyone wants the extras. they sometimes only want the original. so, bobjones has it right. you have to ask the customer. what do they need and want?

but, getting back to alison's image. again, a very nice job of restoring, but it might not 'wow!' the customer. they may have been expecting a fix of the washed out faces. customers dont always know what's possible, or worse, they may think more is possible than is. so, you have to ask. you cant assume. you may assume and be right, but you may also assume and lose the work because you didnt really provide what was wanted.

Hi Kraellin,

Sorry I posted and ran earlier in the week .... the kids went back to school on Tuesday and I was having some quiet time, then the dog got sick and I had to take him to the vets today ...... it's all go

What the customer wants would be the priority in any circumstance. Working with layers gives us the opportunity to bring the image back to the original state and then add some wow, and let them choose which one they want.

[klassylady25]

This was fun!!

[Kraellin]

beth, i looked at that thread, the 'morph' one. so, you've been a little busy

liz, welcome to RetouchPRO. and that's exactly what i'm talking about. you talk to the folks, find out what THEY want and then do what you can to do that. i like it.

candice, nice job on the boys, but you killed most of the plants

[solitear]

Hi Craig..... yep, I've been busy.... but that's come to a halt..... I'm mad at the whole bunch of them so I'm 'taking my toys and going home'...... at least until I cool off a little.....

[klassylady25]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

candice, nice job on the boys, but you killed most of the plants

It was my revenge for mowing this huge yard that I have! Grrr, but I'm moving into a bigger house, with a lovely smaller yard! Ahhhhh

LOL

[Kraellin]

I'm mad at the whole bunch of them so I'm 'taking my toys and going home'...... at least until I cool off a little.....

ok, and who are 'them'? the relatives, the folks in the 'morph' thread? i'm having trouble looking over your shoulder here

candice, hehe, ok