Problem Restoring Color to Damaged Slide

[TwoChimney]

Image AA007 is from a 35mm slide made Dec 1958 in north Alabama. Unfortunately it spent several years in a Houston, Tx attic. Image AA007A is the progress made so far to restore the color.

It appears to me the red channel is badly damaged. Used the blue channel in the Apply Image filter to restore the red, 40% opacity with multiply blending mode. Then found the white and black points using a levels adjustment layer. The bush behind the boy on the right remains green all year and is about the right color. There is a large cedar tree in the background which should be a dark green. The grass is dormant and I think it is close to the right color. The boys are wearing dennim jeans. The rabbit should have more gray as should the box, the sky has a red cast and the hill in the background should have more of a green tint because it was largely covered with pine trees. However, the porch post between the two boys has about the right color (which is where the white point resides) as does the brick as I remember.

Right now I am at a loss as to how to proceed to remove the color cast. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, even if I need to start from the beginning.

Thanks
Morris

[Britsdad]

Morris, welcome to RTP
Try this...add a new blank layer above the image and fill with 50% grey, change the blend to "difference" and then add a "threshold" adjustment layer, move the slider at the bottom all the way to the left, then bring it back until you see the first signs of the image breaking thru', put on a colour sample mark at that point (that is the grey point) then cancel the "threshold" layer and deleate the 50% grey layer, add a curves layer and use the grey point selector to set grey point at the indicated place. This should get you somewhere near the colours you want.
Hope this helps a little....John

[DCobb]

My try. Ran this throu a 3rd party filter. A five second fix.

dc

Curious about John's method so gave it a try. Second picture is the results.

[albatrosss]

Using Levels adjusted each channel. Then sampled the color cast and filled a new layer with this color. Inverted this new layer and blended. Then made some adjustments to finalize color.

[TwoChimney]

I applied John's method to the layer where I reconstructed the red channel. I think the results are improved. Interestingly enough the white and black points are basically in the same place. I did do a bit of color replacement to the legs and removed some green artifacts. Am still thinking about the best way to remove the red and/or magenta cast from the sky. Otherwise, I am reasonably pleased with the results.

Thanks
Morris

[TwoChimney]

The reworked version failed to load on the previous post.

Morris

[Britsdad]

Morris,
You could try Swampy's tute for fixing a "blown out sky" here....
http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/rp-...n-out-sky.html
John

[TwoChimney]

Thanks everyone for your help. The final product of our labors is posted below. I'm declaring this one finished and turning to the next challenge. Fortunately for me my mother, uncle and grandmother took a lot of photos and collected a lot. I am blessed with a pictorial history of our family to before the beginning of the 20th century.

Thanks again. I will be back for more advice.

Morris

[Britsdad]

Hiya Morris,
Much better, nice job, you may want to remove the mark on the boys right cheek, who's holding the rabbit. (but then again you could go on forever )
Regards....John

[Kraellin]

this image raises an issue that's been on my mind lately. we, as restorers, tend to want to make the very best image we can. but, there's a bit of a possible problem there. if the image wasnt a good image when it was taken, we still tend to want to make the image a good image, as if it had been taken perfectly to begin with. but, that's not really a restorer's job.

this posted image is a prime example of this. more than likely, from what i can tell, this was not a good image even when it was new. so, what do you do? do you just do the restore, taking the image back to just a mediocre shot or do you take it to the next level and make it as good as you can, even in light of the poor photography to begin with?

so, here's my take on it. the first image posted here is a basic restore. a lot of the highlights were blown out. the faces were blown out and so on. then age or whatever has turned everything red. well, the blown out areas were just poor photography, so, i mostly ignored that to start. i just wanted to see what the orignal shot looked like.

the second image is the restored image taken another step, fixing some of the blown out areas.

but, it's an interesting question. do you just restore to the original values or do you attempt to take things to that next level?

[Britsdad]

Craig, good question
Personally I think if the photo is similar to the one above, then why not get it as good as is possible? just because it was "bad" in the first place it doesn't mean it has to stay bad (does it?) What happens if the snap was taken in poor light? does it have to stay "wrong" when it can be "fixed"? after all it's still just a snap, it's not as tho' it would be changeing the world.
Now, if it was a historical document, and say you added things into it (say a helicopter, just because you liked them ) then it would be wrong, but I say "get the image as good as you can with the information that is there".
This could do with another thread starting because I can see this going further!
Regards.....John

[Kraellin]

britsdad,

i was thinking of this more if you were a professional charging for the service. do you stop at the restored stage and charge only for that or do you take it to that next step and just automatically include that in your charges or do you stop at the restore and then contact the customer?

a simple example of this is, a customer comes in and says, 'i want this restored'. now, i'm sure most of you have run into situations where someone says one thing, but means another. so, they say they want it restored, but what they really want is a pristine, professionally shot photograph. in other words, they want the restore and the extras. they're just assuming the 'extras' are part of the restore job.

now, if you estimate the job of restoring as taking 2 hours, let's say, and tell the customer that, and they say fine and then come back for the finished product and it's only been restored but not the extra, they are likely to be quite disappointed. so, do you automatically include the extras in the estimate, just do the restore estimate but tell them it can be taken further and ask if they want that also or do you do something else?

and yes, this could develop into a longer thread and may indeed need its own thread.

[Alison]

Hi All,

I'm new, but thought I'd have a quick go at this before bedtime. The results are attached.

As per the discussion above about how far we should go with restoration, I think it is important to remember that colour from the 60's, 70's etc., was a lot different than it is today. Do we stick to the original, or try and put older photos into todays colour spectrum - I think they look better left in the original spectrum.

[Britsdad]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

britsdad,

do you stop at the restored stage and charge only for that or do you take it to that next step and just automatically include that in your charges or do you stop at the restore and then contact the customer?

do you automatically include the extras in the estimate, just do the restore estimate but tell them it can be taken further and ask if they want that also or do you do something else?

Craig,
If I were a pro, I don't think I would have thought about not going to "the next step" I would have just assumed that's what the customer wanted, unless they specifically ask differently.
I have done little odds and sods for friends (as you must have seen on this forum) and the buzz it gives me when they see the full (next step included) restore is amazing. You wouldn't get that if you "just restored" it.
Going further, surely this must be a question you would ask a client before you start the restore/retouch, if you were doing it for a living, isn't it?
Regards.......John
Edit....sorry Alison
Got a bit carried away there...welcome to RetouchPRO, nice job, and I agree with you, old photo's look better as "old photo's", but do the people who want a restore agree, or do they want it to look as good as it can possibly be, "next step" included?

[BobJones]

In response to Craig's issue, goals are situational. If you are trying to achieve a historically accurate restoration, you have one set of goals. If you are restoring for yourself or a friend for the family album, you have another. A professional must satisfy the desires of the client whose desires must come first.

Before I was able to do my own restorations, I had some professionally done. The restorer asked a lot of questions and we had a clearly defined scope of work before anything was done.

[solitear]

Excellent discussion, Craig! Boy, what you said sure is true... i'm sure most of you have run into situations where someone says one thing, but means another. so, they say they want it restored, but what they really want is a pristine, professionally shot photograph. in other words, they want the restore and the extras. they're just assuming the 'extras' are part of the restore job.

(A little off subject here) I, like others here, have done some work for the Operation Photo Rescue people..... one of the hardest things they ask you to do with the restorations is to 'preserve the FEEL of the picture'..... at times, it was next to impossible to keep myself from using my own dad's hand to replace a hand missing from a damaged photo..... or, not bumping up the saturation to today's saturation......sort of like Stuart on MAD TV "Watch what I can do" ...... but when I thought about it, it is the FEEL of my old photos that means so much to me, too.

(Back on subject) I guess it is a good idea to have a portfolio with original 'picture A' next to a basic restoration of 'picture A' with price and, then, a super duper laser light show version restoration of 'picture A' with it's 'linked to layer' price..... but the artist in me keeps puttin' off that project....

oxox
Beth

[Kraellin]

alison, welcome to RetouchPRO.

nicely done on the restore.

now, to everyone, alison did a good job of restoring here. she didnt add any 'extras'. she simply brought the image back to its original state. that's the definition of restore. and britsdad, not everyone wants the extras. they sometimes only want the original. so, bobjones has it right. you have to ask the customer. what do they need and want?

i used to write custom lyrics for weddings and things like that. very personal stuff. and the real trick was to grill them about what they wanted... what they really wanted! the way i'd do this was to just start asking questions about themselves. i'd get them to tell me stories of themselves and they'd practically write the lyrics for me by telling these stories. all i had to do was arrange them. so, that's just one example of finding out what the customer wants.

you may find yourself doing restores of documents instead of images someday. those wanting document restoration generally want EXACT duplicates of the originals. no frills whatsoever. when i started restoring old family photos, especially old tintypes that were crumpled and faded and worn, it was all i could do to just get the original back and i wouldnt have ever thought of adding on something extra to fit modern photography. it just would have been out of place for those images. and like beth said, there is a certain 'feel' to images, especially dated images. each time period of photographic history has a slightly different look and feel.

but, getting back to alison's image. again, a very nice job of restoring, but it might not 'wow!' the customer. they may have been expecting a fix of the washed out faces. customers dont always know what's possible, or worse, they may think more is possible than is. so, you have to ask. you cant assume. you may assume and be right, but you may also assume and lose the work because you didnt really provide what was wanted.

now, britsdad, when you're doing 'odds and sods' for friends and family, especially if you're going to surprise them with a gift of the finished image, that's a bit different. noone commissioned you more than likely. you simply wanted to wow them. and that's cool. i've done that too. and in those cases i dont ask. it would spoil the surprise. you shld have seen my mother when i restored a picture of her as a baby laid out naked on a rug. lol. boy, was she surprised

i've also seen a wide variety of restores and restore plus extras here on RetouchPRO. and this again isnt commisioned work. folks tend to do the restore plus. it just gets more wows. and that's perfectly acceptable here. but in commisioned work you ALWAYS have to find out exactly what the customer really wants, not necessarily what they first say they want. some will just tell you, 'just make it better' and that's really all they want, but some will say the same thing and mean 'i want the wow!'. so, find out. ask. the old saying about assume is that 'assume' makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.

[Kraellin]

oh, and hi beth good to see you here again

[solitear]

Thanks, Craig....... I've been working on 146 photos and then a slideshow of them...... I sure missed being here.... but I'm glad you 'saved me a seat'!

oxoxo

[Kraellin]

146... wow, why so few? family stuff or business?

and yup, you've always got a seat here

[solitear]

Gosh, Craig..... I've been trying to reply but .... I was gonna try & explain but thought it'd make more sense to see my 'Mom was Morphed' thread..... it has to do with the zillion pictures I've been working on..... man, if they had been for clients...Geeez.... let's see.... at a dollar a picture.... I could've been a zillionaire......

oxoxo's
Beth

[Liz]

Have been reading this very interesting discussion and would like to share in the conversation if I may. I do restoration as an add on to our Kodak Express store. I do my best but I'm also still learning (probably be that way till I'm old and grey . What I've learned about my customers with their old images or poor images is that I need to be respectful and cautious because of their emotional connection to the image they have bought to me. I talk to them about that first. Who is it? What relation are they? (Sometimes have to cut short the biography Then I talk to them about why they are restoring it and what they plan to do with the restored copy. This also gives me an idea of what level restoration they want. So the process of defining their expectations and their needs can take at least 15 minutes.

At the beginning they usually are pretty vague and because I can see somewhat what needs to be done, I can be more specific. This helps them define further what they want. I also explain the process because you'd be surprised how many people think they'll get their old photo back repainted rather than reprinted, or alternatively that you will be working on their original which if I stuff up they'll never see again.

I also have a loupe so that they can see for themselves when I talk about moire or something else and can clearly see the problem of why the image my be slightly sofer when they get it. So they get involved in the process of what I reasonably can do and can't do with their image. Then they get my quote based on THEIR understanding of what I will do.

I'm happy, they're happy, and I don't have any complaints afterwards.
So as far as going the next step, or an add-on. Surely you will do the best job you can with the material you have. The customer is assured that you will within the limitations you have given them.

This beats the...."Can you restore this image" "Yep my cost is such and such per hour" "Well, I don't want to pay that can you just scan it in and copy it? How much is that"

[Alison]

now, to everyone, alison did a good job of restoring here. she didnt add any 'extras'. she simply brought the image back to its original state. that's the definition of restore. and britsdad, not everyone wants the extras. they sometimes only want the original. so, bobjones has it right. you have to ask the customer. what do they need and want?

but, getting back to alison's image. again, a very nice job of restoring, but it might not 'wow!' the customer. they may have been expecting a fix of the washed out faces. customers dont always know what's possible, or worse, they may think more is possible than is. so, you have to ask. you cant assume. you may assume and be right, but you may also assume and lose the work because you didnt really provide what was wanted.

Hi Kraellin,

Sorry I posted and ran earlier in the week .... the kids went back to school on Tuesday and I was having some quiet time, then the dog got sick and I had to take him to the vets today ...... it's all go

What the customer wants would be the priority in any circumstance. Working with layers gives us the opportunity to bring the image back to the original state and then add some wow, and let them choose which one they want.

[klassylady25]

This was fun!!

[Kraellin]

beth, i looked at that thread, the 'morph' one. so, you've been a little busy

liz, welcome to RP. and that's exactly what i'm talking about. you talk to the folks, find out what THEY want and then do what you can to do that. i like it.

candice, nice job on the boys, but you killed most of the plants

[solitear]

Hi Craig..... yep, I've been busy.... but that's come to a halt..... I'm mad at the whole bunch of them so I'm 'taking my toys and going home'...... at least until I cool off a little.....

[klassylady25]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

candice, nice job on the boys, but you killed most of the plants

It was my revenge for mowing this huge yard that I have! Grrr, but I'm moving into a bigger house, with a lovely smaller yard! Ahhhhh

LOL

[Kraellin]

I'm mad at the whole bunch of them so I'm 'taking my toys and going home'...... at least until I cool off a little.....

ok, and who are 'them'? the relatives, the folks in the 'morph' thread? i'm having trouble looking over your shoulder here

candice, hehe, ok