Photo Restoration - - Sepia or B&W

BenHardy · #1 09-26-2007, 12:55 PM

Many old photos turn brown with age (see attached) and I notice on some of the help you guys offer, your repaired examples have been changed to B&W. So how does one determine whether the original was sepia or just aged. Furthermore, if a sepia print is required at the end of the process would you convert to B&W first, then repair and then tone back to sepia at the end?

lurch · #2 09-26-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

So how does one determine whether the original was sepia or just aged.

Good question, worth some historical research. I've always just assumed that the original was most likely to be black and white, but could be very wrong.

Quote:

Furthermore, if a sepia print is required at the end of the process would you convert to B&W first, then repair and then tone back to sepia at the end?

Yes. And to get a proper sepia tone, see http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=8

<C>

zekeode · #3 09-26-2007, 02:28 PM

I know this is not the answer you are looking, but...

I would not limit "finishing touch" to B&W or sepia. Try different color tones and see what fits the best.

BenHardy · #4 09-26-2007, 02:58 PM

Thankyou.
BTW, this is an excellent and most instructive site. Now that I'm starting to get a few techniques under my belt I'll help where I can.
Ben

mistermonday · #5 09-26-2007, 03:40 PM

Depending on when the photo was taken, B&W may have been the state of the original. Most of these Sepia looking prints started out as black & white and were toned with a chemical process after developing.
Whether you restore with the color or b&w version often depends on the condition. Some stains & damage are easier to clean up if the image is converted to B&W and then given a sepia or monotone or duotone afterward. Some folks prefer the end result in B&W, while others like the warmer tone.

A good place to start is to adjust the contrast with a Levels or Curve adjustment at the begining to see what you have to work with.
In the sample below:
1. A level adjustment performed on each of the channels separately to pull out as much detail as is left in the image. The result is closer to black & white but not as yellow. Perhaps this may be closer to the original without the effects of more yeloowing with age.
2. This levels adjusted layer placed above the orig background layer with the blend mode set to luminosity. This gives you the original color but with increased contrast.
3. The level adjusted image converted to B&W using the new B&W Adjustment layer in PS CS3.

You can select whichever image makes it easier from here to clone and heal and patch it up.

Regards, Murray

maureeno · #6 09-26-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenHardy

Many old photos turn brown with age (see attached) and I notice on some of the help you guys offer, your repaired examples have been changed to B&W. So how does one determine whether the original was sepia or just aged. Furthermore, if a sepia print is required at the end of the process would you convert to B&W first, then repair and then tone back to sepia at the end?

I have some from that time period and they are clearly sepia. If that helps. I reiterate--mine are clearly sepia.

Maureen

BenHardy · #7 09-26-2007, 04:48 PM

Thanks Murray
I didn't realise that you could perform a Levels adj. on each separate channel.
I assume you did a manual levels adj. since I just tried autolevels on each channel and ended up with a far darker result

BenHardy · #8 09-26-2007, 04:49 PM

Maureeno
How do you know?

Dave.Cox · #9 09-26-2007, 05:28 PM

As Murray indicated, many photos originally printed in sepia, as well as B&W. These weren't the only dual tone choices however. another fairly common one was to add a blue tint, especially if you wanted to make the photo look colder. Getting the photo electronically such as via the site here makes it hard to determine if the original image was sepia, or has just yellowed with age. Still, of ten the best way to clean up a photo is to take it back to B&W, and then colorize it as desired. The method Murray describes is a good one. another one that I often find helpful is the channel mixer set to monochrome. It will allow you to mix the better channels and reduce a damaged channel. Checking the monochrome box leave the result as B&W.

mistermonday · #10 09-26-2007, 07:32 PM

Ben, yes the Level adj was manual. Select each channel from the pull down menu in the Levels dialog box, and compress the histogram. In the case of this image, the image data was all clustered at one end of the curve in each channel. Auto can accomplish the same thing for you if you select the correct option. In the levels dialog box you can click on the options buttons and find 3 Auto options, one of which is to adjust the levels of each channel separately. However, that is not always perfect so I prefer to do it manually as it only takes a few seconds and I can preview exactly how it will look.
Regards, Murray

Kraellin · #11 09-26-2007, 08:37 PM

generally speaking, i do the way murray does, convert to b&w and then work. this has several advantages. contrasting is generally easier. more filters and automated processes will work better on a straight b&w and, it's generally easier to see more of the image. just make sure you simply desaturate rather than take it to true 8 bit grayscale. taking it to true grayscale will make it more difficult as you lose the extra channels.

and, if you're doing this for a client, always make sure you consult the client as to what they want as the finished end result.

chillin · #12 09-28-2007, 01:05 AM

The blue channel in RGB is very dark. If you brighten it up, the sepia tone appears. I'm not sure if it's original.

Alison · #13 09-28-2007, 05:00 AM

Hi Ben,

Old photos were originally shot in B&W then had the silver content removed to create the sepia tone. This produced a very long lasting image. So technically, all images are shot in B&W

zganie · #14 09-28-2007, 05:48 AM

I think first thing is to know the date of the photograph,I find when asking certain questions DATING the photo is very important.If this photo is from the late 1800s it is probably not B&W or maybe not even SEPIA,its probably been printed on a very warmtone paper (dark beige to light brown Maybe,which would give it a sepia look and with age become darker

just my opinion zganie

Kraellin · #15 09-28-2007, 11:06 PM

going back to your original question here, ben, my simple answer would be, if you want historical accuracy, do try to date the image and then date the photographic processes involved and being used around that date. but, dont just date, you also have to place the location. if this was in europe the processes may well be different than if it was taken in the united states.

but, if you're trying to make a specific client happy, then go for what they want. sometimes that will coincide with history and sometimes not.

and just as a guess, pure guess, i'd place your photo around 1890 to 1910, quite possibly europe. you might try our history forum for more help on this. i'm NOT an expert