Back of the photo

[jcharb]

Hi,
I've been searching online to see if I can find a way to read faded writing on the back of old dark papered photographs. Perhaps special lighting, etc. I've got a large box full of family photographs from the midwest 1800's, and had sorted them by which ones have names written on them and those that don't. Then i had this thought... some of these old photographs with the dark backings might have faded writing on them thats just hard to see.

I searched through, and found this one as an example. Call me crazy, but i think it has something written on the very top. Perhaps starting 1/3 of the way from the left and ending just after the impressed design. But maybe I'm just hoping I see something. But it sure looks like some letters above the design.

So... i was wondering... would any of the techniques you use on repairing photographs also work for sharpening dark handwriting on dark backgrounds?

To keep the file size down, i cropped only the upper portion of the photo, where i think i see some words.

Would you be willing to give it a try to see if you can enhance it? And outside of trying something like this, does anyone have any suggestions for some type of lighting or chemical technique?

I'm working on getting copies of known photo's to other descendents of these long-ago family members.

Thank you so much for your time - i sure appreciate it.
Jean - Bremerton, WA

[crazyfly1]

Jean, my opinion, no there is nothing at all there. you might try this
http://home.planet.nl/~ber03728/4N6site/main.htm
found in the forensic section of this site. I can't vouch for it but it looks promising.

[crazyfly1]

John little expensive. If your in America I would check on Kinkos. A couple years ago I had one done couch size on a backing and I payed a total of about $40 usd.

And after reading both of your posts I see that you are here to spam that site.
I'm glad I am able to offer a more convenient, less expensive alternative to our readers.

[TommyO]

Jean,
I would tend to agree with Wm. Using Photoshop, there does not appear to be anything there. There are techniques to bring out faded detail or writing in Photoshop. But, what I tried revealed nothing.

Regarding other techniques, there are many forensic methods. However, unless you have a friend in the industry, it could be cost prohibitive to do so. Most involve using different wavelengths of the light spectrum to reveal faded material from the inks or graphite used to write with. Using chemical agents is generally a last resort.

Best of luck and let us know the final results !

[DCobb]

I tried the Deconvolution Forensic Filter and got nothing useful. I was able to see a hint of writing. The big problem is that the background color is not just a single color and the color of the writing is one of the dark colors in the background. The LAB color space is great for separating colors that are nearly the same. Again, nothing useful.

dc

[Kraellin]

i think what you're seeing as writing is actually part of the paper fiber. if you look closely at the paper across the entire image there, you'll see the same thing in many, many places. i'm fairly sure it's just part of the paper fiber.

[jcharb]

Craig -
Thank you for taking a look at the photo and giving me your thoughts. I think I see what you're saying with the pattern. I guess I just want there to be something 'faded' on it soooooooooo badly. I swear - I really thought there was a hint of something - about went cross-eyed zooming in and staring at it and twisting it around and changing contrast, color, etc. So - thank you for giving it your eyes and unbiased thoughts.

Sorry for the long delay in getting back too! I set all this aside for a month (+?) and left some messages hanging out there.

Thank you again,
Jean - Bremerton

[jcharb]

Crazyfly1, TommyO, DCobb , and Craig

Sorry for the late reply. Thank you all for your ideas and thoughts. I sure was hoping there was some faded writing there. Apparently just my vivid and hopeful Pollyanna imagination.

Crazyfly - The color deconvolution link was really neat. Just the kind of results I would have wanted to have had. Darn. I have some other photos that I’d like to try that exact application on (some child named Keith had fun with some kind of writing material on the backside of several pics some 70 years ago – definitely writing underneath that’s obliterated. I will pursue this more).

DCobb – thank you for trying the deconvolution process! My heart raced when you said you felt you might have seen a hint of writing. But its sounding like it is the fibers. I’ve stared at that area till I’m cross-eyed, so that was really appreciated that you ran that test down.

TommyO – thanks for trying some of the possible techniques on it. I wish I had a forensics lab at my disposal. Oh that would be fun to try those things out, wouldn’t it??

Craig - fibers... yep - now i see fibers (bummed). but ooooh how they line up nicely in some places like writing. I used to read radiographs - we'd get grains lining up on occasion that could make ya sit back and second guess yourself. But sometimes grains are just grains and sometimes they can just lineup in funny patterns. Thanks for the observation.

I’m so amazed at the quality of fixes that I’ve seen in your past posts, and I think I could do this kind of thing and really enjoy it. But I need to get serious and get some ‘real’ software. I don’t want to admit to you the hideous art program I’m using. Lets just say its not on the top 5 (or 10). I can understand why you all would enjoy doing this so much, I think I could get quite the passion for it as well.

Ok – I’m convinced – its time to pony-up and get the software.

Look forward to posting with you again (and learning more from the website)

Thanks all,
Jean - Bremerton

[Kraellin]

thank you, jean

it can be quite enjoyable... relaxing.

as for 'real' software, see the software forum for comparisons on paint shop pro and photoshop and some others. myself, for this type of work, i like paint shop pro. (i hate photoshop's clone tool), but, ps is the cadillac, so, consider that also.