Need writing enhanced on old post card

[nrotonda]

I have an old post card with presumably a picture of some of my relatives on the front and on the back I can see what appears to be a name and address written in pencil.

I have a guess as to what I think it says but would like to figure out a way to enhance the writing so I don't have to guess.

I have scanned the back of the post card at 600 dpi and was able to bring out the writing a little with picasa but not nearly enough.

The image is attached. Any ideas/help appreciated!

Nancy

[TommyO]

Take a look at this one and see if you can read their writing. I think I can, but I'm not sure.

Best of luck !

[Frank Lopes]

Here it is

[mistermonday]

The writing appears to say something like Only you old people need sign card.
Unless you are referring to other writing that your scanner did not register, that's all I see.
Regards, Murray

[nrotonda]

Thank you so much for replying! I should have been more clear on what I couldn't read. Although, I am interested in knowing what you think this part says anyway. My guess is "Only two lg people.." and I have no idea what the 2nd line says. Short hand of some sort.

I will attach another image of just the part that I want to enhance and see if you can help. There is a name, a city and state and also a code of some sort like G79-7. (NOTE: ignore the blue writing)

[TommyO]

Sorry, not much there. I have seen many old photo's that pick up slight residue from other images, papers, envelopes, etc. they lay on. Normally, these faint marks are that, not writing. All writing in those days were pen or pencil which hold up very well over time.

Then again, our eyes & brain are the best guide.

[Daviskw]

It must be explaining something on the picture side.. is it of fair quality..if so maybe you could post it.

Butch

[nrotonda]

The Name and address is there and visible with the eye when you turn it sideways and reflect light just the right way to see the pencil markings. I just can't make out some of the letters and thought there might be a way to digitally enhance it.

If anyone is still interested in seeing the front of the postcard, I can post it this evening but it won't help in reading the name and address. Three of the people in the picture have Xs under them which I think is related to the "Only two lg people... " written on the back.

[0lBaldy]

Originally Posted by nrotonda

The Name and address is there and visible with the eye when you turn it sideways and reflect light just the right way to see the pencil markings. I just can't make out some of the letters and thought there might be a way to digitally enhance it.

In a dark room, apply oblique, or glancing light, to the furrows of indented writing. Photographing with a combination of multiple exposures while moving the light source will fill in the available indentations with shadow and should effectively reproduce the indented writing.

OR.. lay a thin piece of paper over the writing, using a #2 lead pencil and using the side of the lead rub it back and forth over the surface of the paper and see the invisible/indented writing appear

[TommyO]

Thanks Nancy,
Yes, unfortunately digital restoration is not quite as advanced as seen on TV and such. There is no magic algorithm to bring it out any more. There are many creative ideas that come from many of the users, sometimes revealing a bit more information. It could also depend on the scan. But, I think your scan was pretty good and certainly should have shown some information if it was there. Sometimes a higher resolution (1200 -4800) can help as it brings out subtle differences in adjacent pixels that we can enhance.

More often though, a spectral or chemical technique works better. The carbon in the pencil marks do not react with ultraviolet or infrared light. So, when you shine ultraviolet light on the paper, the paper will fluoresce slightly, making the pencil marks look darker. The same is true with infrared. The paper will look light and the pencil dark. Ultraviolet lights, not the black lights, are very common and can be purchased on-line or around town. Plus, you just use your eyes, no special detector needed. You can also photograph the resulting luminescence. Just be aware that the older papers did not contain (or add) fluorescent additives as we do today. Hence, they don't fluoresce as much. It seems to be random, some do some don't.

Hope that may help some. Best of luck.

[lurch]

Nancy, are you sure it's a postcard and not a photographic proof? The writing (including the blue stuff) on the back to me resembles photographer's notations. The address you cite might be a studio stamp.

[mistermonday]

If you can see the writing with your eye, a good scanner with a high dynamic range)should be able to pick it up. Try rotating the photo 90 degrees on your scanner. Turn off all auto settings, (Descreen, sharpen, contrast, color, etc). take a higher resolution scan of the area with the writing (min 1200 ppi). Make no adjustments or post processing afterward. You want to preserve as much detail as possible so if possible load a high res image on a site somewhere and post a link to it in this thread.
Regards, Murray

[0lBaldy]

This is all I could see using color deconvolution

[nrotonda]

Thanks everyone. In the image posted by OlBaldy, you begin to see the name and address appear in the upper left hand corner. It starts out with "Mrs. Silas" from what I can gather.

I will rescan at a higher resolution tonight and also try the ultraviolet technique!
Great idea!!

Nancy

[Icy8008]

As you can see at attached there is the possibility of a writing, but what you can see as well is the big squares indicating artifacts, so you should do both SCAN higher, as well as avoid ANY compression, but do NOT exceed the physical limits of your scanner in terms of PPI, otherwise these artifacts return.

Icy8008

[nrotonda]

We are getting closer. Here's a higher resolution scan.

[TommyO]

Nancy,
About the same. Unfortunately, with the upload limit of 100K (200K for patrons), that just isn't high enough to upload a high res image. The last attachment is still a low res image (due to the conversion for web).

The other methods will likely reveal the text. However, if you want us to try again, you'll have to upload elsewhere and put a link here.

[nrotonda]

If you would like to try again, I have posted the higher resolution image online at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10029128@N07/

Hopefully, you can access it. If not, possibly I can send it to someone's personal e-mail account.

If not, that's ok too. You've all been more than helpful!

Nancy

[Verywierd]

I tried your larger file, but the scan resolution is just not high enough. The grain in the image is too large to allow for the text to be extracted.

[mistermonday]

Nancy, your scan resolution is only 600 ppi. Your scanner should be able to scanoptically at min 2400 ppi. Veryweird is correct. At the size of your scanned area, the pixels are too large relative to the area at 600ppi to allow the tools to do a proper job of separation.
Regards, Murray

[mistermonday]

Nancy, I had a go at the your Flicker image. The writing definitely looks recoverable. I am not the greatest at interpreting handwriting but what I see so far looks something like Mr John Hogan. The next line address looks like in ends in the letters glen. A better scanwould probably mean the difference between a sucessful extraction or not.
Regards, Murray

[nrotonda]

I can see the writing pretty well in Verywierd's attachment. From what I can gather with your help and by turning the post card at different angles to reflect the pencil markings, I think I see:
Mrs. Silas Grover
Mannington, WV
G79-7

Unfortunately, this name doesn't help.. if it were John that might be more intriguing to me. Anyway, my scanner is old and only scans up to 600. The scan resolution can be set to 1200 but the output resolution is max 600. I don't really get the point of scanning at 1200 if it can only be output at 600.

For your enjoyment (or curiosity), I posted the front of the post card on flickr at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10029128@N07/2933439530/

Nancy

[CountLudwig]

While you have probably already figured this out, I thought I would post nonetheless.
After looking at this for a moment or two I realized just what is going on.
you can see a whole bunch of writing but it's really very faint.
in fact the reason it is so faint is because this piece of paper wasn't actually
written on, it was stuck together with some other papers that had writing on
in them and a very tiny bit of it has rubbed off from being stuck together.
I've seen this type of situation before and this appears to be the most logical explanation.
Echoing what someone else has also stated, perhaps you can locate the other papers that were stored with this picture to verify my theory.

-Ron