identifying the problem

[niteowl64]

Hi all, learned restoration from books starting 2 years ago and I am looking for some information about a potential fix. The photo is an old family one, which was an incredible mess. You name the problem and it had it. I am 90% there and am stuck. I've brought all of the photo back except for the face and shirt, uploading the problem part here. I have searched for a solution but other than blurring to try and hide the damage, I can't find anything. before i use that solution of last resort, I want to make sure i am not missing something

I honestly am having difficulty identifying what the problem is, and therefore the solution (if it exists). Working from a scan and I don't have the original. What is that crud on the face and shirt and is it fixable versus trying to hide it? noise? mold? fading cracks? Can it be repaired?

I'm very proud of the work i've done and am oh-so-close to the finish line! Any suggestions/advice of what it is and how/if I can fix it so I can finish and share with family, would be greatly appreciated

[W.Smith]

Can't say from that 536x800 pixel, niteowl. You'll have to post a link to the full size scan for us to be able to see more.

[mistermonday]

Niteowl, it is difficult to tell from the low res image you uploaded but indications are high frequency noise and some color noise. This could have resulted from a poor quality scanner or it could be representative of the original image. One light dose of Noiseware (a noise filter) seems to have smoothed it out without excessive blurring. It would be better if we could see a higher res image.
Regards, Murray

[Markzebra]

These "Noise" filters, all lead to a very artificial and facile look. You will probably find that your answer is painstaking work with the clone stamp, and high zoom level. Maybe using "Lighten". Sounds painful but when you get good at it, you can polish this kind of thing off in an hour or so.

I think you did a good job so far. I think the very high key almost blown areas can be brought down A LITTLE using either a curve or shadow highlight - this will allow you to see the problem more clearly and produce a better overall tonality.

[philbach]

I noticed that the blue channel had by far the most artifacts. So maybe at a very early part of the retouch you could select the red channel using the Channel Mixer adjustment layer and take it from there.

I copied the background layer and added a layer mask on that layer and used Neat Image helped out the facial blotches and results are similar to Murray's.

[niteowl64]

Thank you for taking the time to look at the retouch. I've got to search around for a site to upload the high res. scan. I'm new to doing that part of it and had hoped the thumbnail would show a bit better than it did

[niteowl64]

Thank you Murray for the tips. I'll search out the answer to posting a higher res. somewhere to give a better close up of the problem. The original scan was done on an at home computer, at 300 dpi and no other options checked off. I had replaced the entire background as the original had pinhead sized brown spots all over it. I don't think the blotchiness is from the scan-or at least a majority of it isn't. The original was pretty bad.

I had recently tried a trial version of Akvis noisebuster and the smooth option was much more than I wanted, even at the lowest setting. I'll wprk on getting a better photo posted.

[niteowl64]

Thanks for the help Mark and phil, I could use all the advice I can get. I've basically gotten as far as I have with Photoshop restoration book or searching online for an answer. I still have a ways to go though. I freely admit, curves are a major weakness. It irritates me to no end that no matter how many times I read the info on curves and attempt it, it's just not clicking and it would so improve the tones. What I need is "curves for dummies".

I'm hoping i can upload a higher res. fairly quickly. Thanks again. I'm so glad I found someone to give some suggestions and advice. Glad to have found this forum!

[niteowl64]

Ok found a better place to than my last link for the photo, so i deleted that post. I was able to upload to windows live in the original size I had it and original format of .tif. This one is much better than the jpg

http://cid-1bc42168434aede2.skydrive...dpa%201902.tif

[philbach]

Well I did use the channel mixer with Red and a little green mixed and Neat Image to decrease the spots and finally Curves to increase the contrast.

[mistermonday]

Niteowl, your best quality upload is only 1.4" X 2" at 300 ppi. That is a very small amount of data and you should not expect the final product to look very good at any size larger than 1.4 x 2". If the original photo really was that small, the scan should have been at a much higher resolution.
Convert to grayscale (B&W) such as Phil has done. However, if you want to get rid of the noise and enlarge the image, I would still apply a noise filter.
Regards, Murray

[niteowl64]

Phil,

Thank you so much. I really appreciate the information and work you did. I realize the darker colors had a smaller amount of noise and grainyness to it but I must have developed "snow blindness" having looked at it for so long. Huge difference. The shirt and face look so much better. I can finally finish this one off and share it with family

I really like the control over the smoothness the filter gives you. The one I tried, coupled with my lack of knowledge with it, seemed like using a hammer to swat a fly-just so heavy handed in the smoothness and noise removal that it did more harm than good.

I did go to neat image home page and they have several versions to download. As someone with experience with it, can you recommend which would be the best for my purposes? At home retouching of old family photos.

I'm going to hunt around for tutorials here, to improve on my curves and channel mixing learning. Thanks again, your a peach!

[niteowl64]

Originally Posted by mistermonday

Niteowl, your best quality upload is only 1.4" X 2" at 300 ppi. That is a very small amount of data and you should not expect the final product to look very good at any size larger than 1.4 x 2". If the original photo really was that small, the scan should have been at a much higher resolution.
Convert to grayscale (B&W) such as Phil has done. However, if you want to get rid of the noise and enlarge the image, I would still apply a noise filter.
Regards, Murray

Thanks for the help and information. You and the others confirmed what I suspected was the problem but wasn't really sure. Must be luck of the draw that my starting old photos, until this one, didn't have anywhere near the amount of noise and distortion and were fixable without having to use a noise filter.

I look forward to poking around the forum to glean pearls of wisdom ( and other tools) from all here. You guys are great

[Kraellin]

this took about 10 or 15 minutes.

duplicate image.

paint shop pro's digital camera noise removal at a fairly aggressive rate with a slight amount of sharpening.

push to remove minor artifacts resulting from noise removal.

done.

nice photo

and welcome to RP

[niteowl64]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

this took about 10 or 15 minutes.

duplicate image.

paint shop pro's digital camera noise removal at a fairly aggressive rate with a slight amount of sharpening.

push to remove minor artifacts resulting from noise removal.

done.

nice photo

and welcome to RP

Thanks Kraellin, glad I found the forum. I'm not on PSP but Photoshop CS2. just plain noise removal on this version and way to bulky for me. I'm guessing the filter Phil mentioned would be the equivelant of PSP digital noise removal? I look forward to using noise removal on other photos that have less noise than this but still have noise. Nice to find out I don't have to live with the noise and can get a better restore

[philbach]

niteowl64 I believe they have neat image in a demo configuration to try out. As you probably know by now there are several applications out there that do about the same thing. Neat image works fine for me.

[Kraellin]

just plain noise removal on this version and way to bulky for me.

i dont quite understand what you mean by 'bulky' here. you mean it does too general a job and leaves things a bit blurry or what? and if so, then simply mask the areas you dont want affected by the noise removal.

and yes, neat image is similar to psp's noise removal. i just find psp's easier to use. but a LOT of folks use neat image and there is a free version.

[niteowl64]

Originally Posted by Kraellin

i dont quite understand what you mean by 'bulky' here. you mean it does too general a job and leaves things a bit blurry or what? and if so, then simply mask the areas you dont want affected by the noise removal.

and yes, neat image is similar to psp's noise removal. i just find psp's easier to use. but a LOT of folks use neat image and there is a free version.

It seemed to heavy handed in the amount of blur and smoothing, not so much unwanted areas blurring. I was losing way to much detail and the degree of smoothing was too strong, even when I upped the sharpening level. Of course, I need to learn more about the fine tuning of the filter and how best to use it, but the forum has pointed me in the right direction

[Kraellin]

ah, ok.

[bpurvis]

Originally Posted by philbach

niteowl64 I believe they have neat image in a demo configuration to try out. As you probably know by now there are several applications out there that do about the same thing. Neat image works fine for me.

I've been using Nik Define, but haven't seen many comments on how people like it. I run the filter, adjusting as needed, then I will often reduce the layer opacity until the skin seems about right. Does anyone else out there use Define, and do you like it?
Becky