textured photo

[marggg]

hi,

This photo is about 30 years old and has a raised beaded texture. Is there a filter or other technique that can be used to get rid of it?

thanks

[Der_W]

Have you already tried the techniques described here: http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=185?

I gave it a try: http://www.abload.de/img/textureu20e.jpg

[chillin]

Yes, FFT filter would help

[marggg]

Thanks, Jonas, I'll read that thread.
Chillin, I don't know what FFT means. Maybe the thread will 'splain it.

thanks!

[marggg]

I have photoshop cs3. I don't have a Filter-->Fourier Transform. I also searched Help for 'fourier' with 0 results. Could it be called something else?

[chillin]

In this thread you will find information about FFT & ImageJ...

...& here is a download link

[marggg]

I found it and did it. Here's how it looks.

Neat trick!

[marggg]

Chillin,
What else did you do to get the skin so much smoother than I did?

[Cupcake]

I had this problem a few years back.
Go outside and take a picture of it on a overcast day.
I laid it on a table and looked down on the picture.
You can not see the texture.

[csuebele]

One of the best ways to get rid of this type of pattern is to photograph the picture using cross polarizing filters. One filter over your lens and one on each of your lights. Gets rid of nearly all the reflections. Another way, I was thinking of trying is taking several photos of the image with a light source positioned at different angles around the photo. Combine all the images using darken. This might get rid of the specular highlight in the indivual images. Haven't tried doing that yet, but it should work.

[marggg]

Thanks, Cupcake, I'd like to try that!
Thanks, csuebele, I don't have a camera with those filters, but shooting it at diff angles I can do with my digital camera. If I layered the image with the darken blending mode, wouldn't it get really dark overall?

[csuebele]

No, darken will only make an area as dark as the darkest places of that layer. Multiply will darken the image. If you have a tripod, try taping the photo to a wall and take a light and take one exposure with the light to the right side, one to the left, one from the top, and one from the bottom. Keep the light far enough away so you don't get too much light fall off. I found an old print with a heavy texture. I'm going to try it hopefully tomorrow to see if it works as I think it will.

[Kraellin]

you can also use the FFT filter built into Image Analyzer (IA). IA is free and their fast fourier transform is easier than the normal FFT or RGBFFT filters. you can get it from the Meesoft site.

[Florin]

Hello. I`m quite new in this forum (logged yesterday) and maybe this post is already out of the public interest. However, I`ll mention that`s one of my weekly problems, when I restore all kind of images.
The answer for my point of view is that no filter could fix or eliminate the texture. The only way to restore is painting the whole image:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2psgck6.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/xv9u0.jpg

You can`t blurr the photo because should be worth. You must paint every pixel because if not you`ll have new patches over the old original stuff.
A little ammount (5-6%) of noise/dust and scratches, curves, then paint with the S and B brushes, dodge and burn tools for the volumes, a special brush for the hair texture (make it yourself); really few tools are needed but a lot of patience and dedication.
Regards,
Florin

[0lBaldy]

Originally Posted by Florin

I`ll mention that`s one of my weekly problems, when I restore all kind of images.
The answer for my point of view is that no filter could fix or eliminate the texture. The only way to restore is painting the whole image:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2psgck6.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/xv9u0.jpg

You can`t blurr the photo because should be worth. You must paint every pixel because if not you`ll have new patches over the old original stuff.

really few tools are needed but a lot of patience and dedication.[/I]
Regards,
Florin

Welcome to RetouchPRO Hope you enjoy your stay here and make lots of friends. Poke around, ask questions, offer help, have fun!

I like what you have done with the samples you provided.. very nice work!

I thought I would throw up a sample, using one of the samples of paper texture you provided. I used the FFT filter included with Image Analyzer 1.31 (Freeware for Windows 98/ME/2000/XP/Vista/7)

Took about 20 seconds (using only the FFT filter) Notice necklace, eyes, earring, hair.... very little blurring!

[Florin]

Yes, my friend. Always is necessary use a little ammount of some filter for the beginning, I agree. However, after that, you must paint the whole stuff. You have to paint because the only filter by itself can`t resolve the image restoration. We are talking about a restoration, not only remove the texture. This is the first easy step. The hard work and ability come later, with the painting. Here is the result:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2ij2rdv.jpg

Regards and glad to meet you,
Florin

[lynn55]

Thank you for great information.

I use FFT filter in Image Analyzer is great.

[Florin]

Hello again. Sorry but I can`t see anything great here. It`s only an unfocused small picture without the texture. Enlarge this to 6" x 8" or 4" x 8" / 400dpi, as you should print it and see. You couldn`t sell this kind of retouch to anyone.
I spent years trying to understand what`s the trick to decently fix a damaged image using the filters, plugins, layers and all this stuff, combining them, using the transitions, etc etc. From the beginning y used the brushes (clone and paint) but that`s no easy and many times I felt tired about. One must have a very large expierence to use them well and I didn`t manage this as well at the initiation as a restorer. The only thing I understood from my searches and mistakes was that restoration is an art, it`s not about fix something and receive xxxUS$ but be agreed about your final art work. Some 8-9 years ago I was prideful of my "restorations", now I`d be shamed to show those to you. Some moment I understood that a fine decent work need time, study and a lot of practice. And I begun a new step and I worked hard to improve the painting technique. It was the only way to recover the image. Truely, some years ago I was spending 10 days to do what I`m doing today in 5 hours and with better resoults. Surf the net and tell me later the story. Very, very few sites are using this (painting the whole image), most of the people throw a couple of plugins, clone some of the scratches and cash 10 or 15 bucks. That`s what we could say a good business but not art. I don`t do this, I`m not interested about. Maybe I`m wrong and I apologise if I`m too stright with my comments. It`s my point of view. I`m so new here and don`t want to look like some restorations-guru, no, I only want to share my expierences, the good and the bad ones.
The restoration below coudn`t be done by no filter in this world but painting.
My best regards to all of you.
http://i49.tinypic.com/25teu5c.jpg

[chillin]

Originally Posted by 0lBaldy

Welcome to RetouchPRO

Took about 20 seconds (using only the FFT filter) Notice necklace, eyes, earring, hair.... very little blurring!

...and another 3 minutes...

[Florin]

I really don`t understand one thing: ¿what`s the hurry? "20 seconds and another 3 minutes"... Don`t think we are in the Retouch Olimpycs, ¿do you?
You have very good jobs in your site, I just see them and I like your potential, you have a great talent, good eye and skill. The only thing I should recommend is pay a little more attention to the details and leave the hurry. Give it let say "the final touch", spent a little more time than the famous 3 minutes and paint the confused details. Especially the eye`s expression is the more important, that`s will determine if the restoration is going for the right way. We can`t leave blurred, fade or expressionless eyes.
Here are some marks:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2v1rj21.jpg
The idea is deliver an almost perfect job, I`m saying almost because we can`t be perfect but we should try to be.
I have too my leaks, not always my jobs are so perfect but there is one thing that I understood after all these years: keep impoving my technique all days long and try that my next work be better than now.
My best regards

[byRo]

Florin, as I have said in another thread your work is "almost perfect", but I think you should bear in mind that the discussion threads here are more about comparing techniques than seeing who can do the best job.

Not everybody can spare hour upon hour (without getting paid ) to work on somebody else's image and then post an 800 pixel size result squashed into 100KB.

So ""20 seconds and another 3 minutes" should be taken as an indication of a useful step in the process, but not the time one would take to acheive the final product for a (paying) client.

I, for one, am very interested in your "painting" technique and would like to discuss it with you. Personally I usually resort to smudging which can get (less than perfect) results in the hour or so that I give myself to work on an image from these threads.

Rô

[chillin]

Originally Posted by Florin

You have very good jobs in your site, I just see them and I like your potential, you have a great talent, good eye and skill. The only thing I should recommend is pay a little more attention to the details and leave the hurry. Give it let say "the final touch", spent a little more time than the famous 3 minutes and paint the confused details. Especially the eye`s expression is the more important, that`s will determine if the restoration is going for the right way. We can`t leave blurred, fade or expressionless eyes.

Thank you for the tips.
I would use the "painting" technique with some restraint, but that's only IMHO.

[Kraellin]

hi florin and welcome to RP.

as one of the folks here who do a lot of hand work, i tend to agree with most of your philosophy. and i must say, your work is very good! i'm impressed

but, like byRo said, real life and the almighty dollar do play a part in one's work. the term 'starving artist' is all too real. so, one has to always mix quality and quantity, which translates into how good can you make it in how short a time period and balance those two with your client's demands and willingness to pay for good work. it's just one of those realities that's hard to get away from.

another point to this is, your work is actually more than a restoration. it's almost photo art (and you do it very well). so, it's actually restoration plus enhancement. you are actually taking the original back to better than the original from what i can see on your web site, and that's fine, but, others dont. myself, for instance, tries to restore to the original state except where that state needed retouching, as in blown out whites, etc, in which case, then i fix. but, trying to get everyone to restore and enhance is actually wrong for some folks and for some clients. so, whereas your work is really excellent, i dont agree that everyone shld try to follow along those lines. certainly, i would like to know more about your technique, but i still think simple restoring is sometimes the better path.

also, one tip for you on your work. make a selection on the skin areas and add back some noise. it needn't be much, but it will give it a little more of that photo quality rather than the painted quality. if the client wants painted, then that's fine, but if they want photo, try adding back a little noise at the end of your restore. it gives a little texture to the skin. the attached is yours with a little noise added back in.

[byRo]

Craig, I know we've wandered off topic, but it's probably not a coincidence that the "Painting and Enhancing" Restorers (i.e. me and Florin) are both from South America.

Maybe it's because the customers around here want a "NEW" photo and aren't too worried about technical accuracy.
I'm just an amateur, but I'm sure that Florin is attending to the clientes wishes, otherwise...

Rô

[Florin]

Hello. Sure, you`re right. Sometimes I feel it too, maybe I`m wrong, too much details, too much time, an obsession for the perfection that doesn`t exsists... I really don`t know, good or bad... but this is my way and I can`t change. I prefere to be accordant to my point of view of the final art than think first about money and profitability. I prefere to receive someone`s greetings before the cash. ¿Is this crazy? ¿Is it a bad business? Everyone is free to do everything as the final result is feeling great, feel he`s someone in the brand. I feal great when my clients (not always) are congratulating me. Worth more than any cash. For me, restoration is first a challenge, is the art to rescue (sometimes) what`s impossible for the others, is improve every day my technique, is acquire from other people what I`m still missing, is understand my errors and try to be better. I`m not so young, I`m 57 and the only thing I regret is I`m not in the 30th again and have the desire and the enthusiasm I have now.
You`ll tell me if I`m nuts or not. Don`t worry, I`m a very open mind.
Cheers
P.S.
I just receive a mail with this:
http://i46.tinypic.com/s1uxj6.jpg
¿What should you do?

[0lBaldy]

Keeping on track with the Original Poster:

Originally Posted by marggg

a raised beaded texture. Is there a filter or other technique that can be used to get rid of it?

Again I used the FFT in Image Analyzer..

Originally Posted by Florin

I`m not so young, I`m 57

Yes, You are young compared to some of us..

Then answering your question:

Originally Posted by Florin

I just receive a mail with this:
http://i46.tinypic.com/s1uxj6.jpg
¿What should you do?

I would do FFT, Noise removal, some healing and smoothing (about an hours worth all together) I know it is still very soft but I am not an artist so I did not harden the edges nor do any smudging...

~~~Original~~~~ FFT + Noise removal

[byRo]

This picture has been through (at least) two stages of image loss:

1. Original to Halftone Black and White (Bitmap) dither;
2. Bitmap to JPG.

Which means that the size of over 800 pixels is misleading. As this is a dither pattern you have to consider a group o Bitmap pixels as representing one greyscale pixel.
In this image the pattern repeats at intervals of 5.3 pixels so, in fact, the image size is really only around 165 (greyscale) pixels (attached).

That is the information you (really) have to start with.
If you're not a "Painter" there's not much you can do except blow this image up to size.
If you are a "Painter", then it's time to paint.
I did a quick smudge (attached)to illustrate the idea but I'm sure Florin can do much better!

Rô

[TommyO]

Florin,
Certainly very glad you have joined and decided to contribute. Your work and your talent should be a valuable contribution to RetouchPro.

I see where both your perspective and others' are correct for restoration work. Your ability to brush an image is very good, and I am envious. However, I will never be able to do it. I know my limitations. And, I often explain that to anyone asking me for such a restoration. If it cannot be restored using more technical methods, I refer them to someone else. Sorry, but I am not an artist. Would I like to be ?... certainly, but it's not very likely to happen any time soon.

Originally Posted by byRo

Maybe it's because the customers around here want a "NEW" photo and aren't too worried about technical accuracy.

Ro, I would agree with that as well. It also is an issue in the states, simply depending upon who approaches you for restoration work. Some want it to be exactly as the original (a technical restoration), others are less inclined and are satisfied with a more artist restoration. Again, it becomes very important to have some discussion with the owner as to what our particular talents are.

Florin,
As Ro and Craig have asked, it would be good to create a thread or two and share some of what you have learned. Your skills are not often applied to restoration work, and represent a missing element here on RetouchPro. I'm sure many others would appreciate your sharing it with us. Something along the lines of your basic workflow... how you get started... what you use from the original, what you don't... how do you "see" what you've done and what is still needed to be done.... etc.

Originally Posted by Florin

P.S.I just receive a mail with this....¿What[/url] should you do?

And I think Florin meant this to be an practical example of an image that just cannot be restored satisfactorily without a more artistic approach.

[secretagents]

One pass of KPT Equalizer plus levels. Cool no ?

[pavkey88]

Wow - I don't really have much more to offer on this except to say 'different strokes for different folks' - Chillin, Kraellin and Florin all bring out some WONDERFUL techniques for restoring these photos. There's no doubt that the FFT filter is pretty darn amazing, but there is certainly something very appealing about the painting technique for certain pictures - with a bit of noise as Kraellin suggested to keep some of the authenticity of the original.