Estimate advice for photo restoration (digital)

[yesihave2]

Hello RP world!

I just joined today and am in need of advice from anyone willing to give their 2 cents to a newbie (and I'm looking forward to becoming a regular patron). I mostly do freelance web and graphic design, though doing photo retouching is probably my more preferred type of work because I just love cleaning things up and looking at the before and after.

Anyway, I hope my post here is not inappropriate to ask about and if it is, I apologize in advance. I have been given my first photo restoration project (well, I don't exactly have it yet, they want to know how much I would charge) and I was quite taken aback from how severely damaged the scanned portrait they sent me appears.

The photo is attached and it's 11 X 14 (I already know it will have to be rescanned, it was only 72 dpi, but we have a mutual friend that can do that for them for free). At least they want a digital restoration only (that's all I know how to do). The client tried to take it to some places here in Nashville (I'm not sure what type of places, the mutual friend of the client is who I'm going through at the moment) but it was rejected because these places said they don't do anything larger than 8 x 10.

So first I was sitting here trying to figure out how much of my time will likely be put into this so I can know what to charge. Then the more I thought about it, I decided I want to go with a flat rate so I can take my time with it because I'll likely be learning as I go on this one. I consider myself a pretty advanced and experienced PS user and have CS5. I just don't know what is too little to charge for a project like this (I've done this type of work before for free after the flood happened in Nashville last year - that was my way of volunteering to help - but even those photos weren't this damaged), and other than that I've only medium photo retouching for a country artist and charged per photo.

They want to know an estimate ahead of time. Of course I did a google search and saw the low rates out there that I can't compete with. I know it's going to depend on the clients budget as well, I just don't want my estimate to send them running away because I really do enjoy doing this type of work and would like to do it more regularly.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any input you guys may have.

[chinchillakilla]

Firstly for the purpose of scanning yuo want a minimum of 300dpi scan but personally I prefer 600 dpi as then you can enlarge the photo for printing afterwards. as for prices I could not tell you as I live in the uk.

I would class this as moderately damaged but is a great picture to work on as there is no full facial repair. If you use your normal photoshop tools you will be fine. As for pricing you want to be in the middle of the rate as charge too much you will scare clients off and charge too little and they think you gonna do a crap job. Concentrate on the rates from small businesses those corporate chains can afford to knock out at stupid prices but the little guy like us cannot. A small business is often favoured due to the personal touches you get which does not happen with a corporate chain. This photo looks scarier than it is have fun restoring this photo.

[Florin]

Welcome here yesihave2.
One of the things I always recommend is to start with easy projects. You'll do them right, you'll feel glad with your work and you'll learn little by little a lot of useful things which could help for the next jobs. Maybe low level retouch will not make you reach (for now) but will provide a solid flat to keep going and reach soon a better level of your retoucher skilness. This one is not an easy job to do, this picture is very damaged, spotted and dirty so it requires a lot of work experience for the workflow.
Nothing worth than work with something which is beyond of our possibilities. Now, after 10 years of hard retouch, I still look a lot for every project I'm supposed to do and if I decide that it could not be done in the best terms I'm rejecting the offer. You know better than anyone if you'll be able or not to do it fine. I do not want to discourage you, this is not my intention.
Some good retoucher charge $20-25 as his lower hour/rate. Low level retouch cost in the web is $5-15, mid level some $20-40 and high level could cost from $50 to $100 or more.
Standard printing paper for the digital labs are (inch) 6x8, 6x9, 8x10 and 8x12. Some machines are printing big sizes, 12x16 and 12x18. Here where I live this is available (the 12x18) but I don't like the quality. The brand is Kiss (French) but Noritzu (Japan) have better colors. If not, look for an Epson plotter service and you'll have a great color quality and no size limits.
I always think that retouching is an endless learning process, like a very high mountain we have to climb and climb. Every time when we reach a "station" (I think this is the name the people who is doing this call the points where they stop for a while) we can admire the beautiful landscape up there and look back, below, and count the not-so-beautiful things we left behind. Every step will bring you closer to the "top", to the perfection. Be patient and keep climbing
Regards

[TPF]

I would probably spend about 2 hours on that. I'd charge $100, plus GST. Could be longer, but that would most likely be due to me being picky/experimenting, not something I can charge the customer for!

[Florin]

Well, if I'd do this it could spend more than 2 hours. It depends how deep you are ready to go. I'm painting all the image when I'm dealing with that tough project. Plugins use is so reduced here and painting needs more time. At least is the final resoult what it worth here. For 100 bucks must deliver a high end work. If you can do this in only 2 hours it's really great!
Regards

[Carol Heath]

I could write a book about the art of underquoting. So often I receive scans of images via email at a low res which look like they may only take an hour or two, but once I receive them and scan them at the required resolution, I realise that restoration will take much longer. I have learnt the hard way.

Whenever I deliver a quote (for an image that I will later scan myself) I explain that it is an estimate only and that an accurate quote cannot cannot be provided until I have examined the original.

It is difficult to tell from your low res images but I imagine that the most time consuming part of the restoration would be repairing scratches, spots, etc. I am based in Australia and would most probably quote approx A$150-$165 for this restoration. If it takes less time than expected, the customer will not be charged as much.

If the customer thinks I am too expensive they will go elsewhere. That is fine with me. I would rather have customers who value the quality of my work rather than just shop around for the best price.

I often provide quotes then never hear form the prospective client again. Bad business? I don't think so. Whilst I am busy and have a continuous flow of work, I would rather not have to bargain for a good price. I don't earn enough for that! Lol.

If you are just starting out and feel that the experience of restoring the image would be of greater value to you than the $ then of course, offer a better price.

[Mike Needham]

I love that photograph I would give my right arm to spend around 12 hours on it, however that isn't going to keep you warm and dry. As you astutely point out your clients budget is really the only important factor here, ascertain that and your job is done, you can tailor your work accordingly. I would want around £180-£250 for the work, but would probably in reality spend a lot more time on it than the payment, as like all retouchers I'm a perfectionist. Price also depends upon who is printing the image or if it is supplied in a digital format, so price that in or out accordingly.

Try to get added value for yourself, ask if you can feature it in a portfolio for example, ask them to recommend you. If you are happy and don't feel shafted that is the important thing, as you are not 'pro' don't get too hung up on the money. Repeat business can be a great thing too.

[Tony W]

Originally Posted by Carol Heath

If the customer thinks I am too expensive they will go elsewhere. That is fine with me. I would rather have customers who value the quality of my work rather than just shop around for the best price.
..........If you are just starting out and feel that the experience of restoring the image would be of greater value to you than the $ then of course, offer a better price.

Great advice IMHO. As you can see I particularly like the value and quality aspect

If you are happy and don't feel shafted that is the important thing, as you are not 'pro' don't get too hung up on the money. Repeat business can be a great thing too.

Again very sound advice.

As expected Florin's insight into this very valuable - although I had thought he has been restoring since God was a lad

I do hope the OP revisits this and lets us know how it turned out.

[Florin]

I'm not so old, Tony! Just 58

[Tony W]

Just reaching your prime then like me Florin . Glad you took the comment in the spirit of fun as intended - had some concern after sending it just in case it could be taken the wrong way. I was going to blame the rather nice couple of glasses of Rioja I had just had if it had been.

Regards
Tony

[chillin]

Originally Posted by TPF

I would probably spend about 2 hours on that. I'd charge $100, plus GST. Could be longer, but that would most likely be due to me being picky/experimenting, not something I can charge the customer for!

In these 2 hours, is a color recovery included?

[Florin]

I still do not beleive this could be done in 2 hours. I'm working pretty fast and estimate some 6-7h at least. Remember that charging some $150 or more oblige you to deliver a first class retouch. If not...client

[Florin]

"holl here do not to business"...

We are not bidding, just changing opinions regarding the working time and so on. This is another guy's work, dear devil.

[MemoriesCount]

I agree, that's a wonderful old photo. Perhaps my expertise is lacking compared to some of the posters, but I know I myself would be on the project most of a day due to the extensive damage. Also, African-American skin color can be tricky to get right as it varies considerably, if it's a color image. Is it sepia, or just that discolored? As someone else stated, there's no serious damage to critical areas though, so it looks like a great project I would heartily welcome. Enjoy the work!

[RooB]

I'd charge about $50 CDN for a photo like this, and it'd probably be done in about two hours.

The only real questionable part about his picture that could make it more difficult is the stain over the eye-- eyes are usually the hardest part to repair, and that's why I'd estimate two hours, because I'd be spending at least 20-30 minutes trying to fix that eye properly (my weakness).

The rest is pretty much easy fluff.

[Kraellin]

well, i thought i'd give this a shot. dont ask what i did this time. it was spaced out over quite a few days and psp doesnt save the history with saving the image. i do know it was a lot of clone, push, and airbrush, with some tone mapping, fade correction and just good ole plain love

[Florin]

Unfortunately I'm in a hurry with my private projects and have some delay with the delivery of several retouch jobs waiting in file. This means I have very little time for other activities. However, I spent almost 1 hour doing this piece:

http://i54.tinypic.com/x1wrgm.jpg

My points of view:
1. increase the resolution at least to 300-400 dpi.
2. working with original colors has no sense, there are no colors, just an orange tint spread all over the image. maintain the rgb mode but desaturate the picture. you'll appreciate better your progress, make better transitions and more precise. when all will be done you'll add the color(s) of your choice.
3. very little help of the plugins, this needs 95% brush work.

I did not made some hair texture in this sample. I usually finish all the head retouch and leave the hair as the last task before to add the colors.
I'm maintaining what I said before, some 6-7 work hours to do a fine job.
Remember that we have here not a common picture, in fact this is a portraiture and this means more work, more details.
My best regards to all of you,
F

[zganie]

I agree with Florin;This photo done PROPERLY would take more than 2hours (THAT SAID)

The problem with a lot of Restorations is "THE TIME" they are time consuming,THEREFORE
become expensive to do I mean take Florin"s Estimate(as an example) 6-7 hours x$25.00=$150-$175 plus cost of a print plus taxes in your area.Total?? $200-$225? How many clients are actually willing to pay this?I think not a lot

[spotter]

I worked for an hour on this using mostly filters and plugins,no addition of colour and a very quick go with the repair brush , it might possibly be a colour pic originally.
I think you would be hard pushed to have a finished product in 2 hours, it depends very much what the local competition are charging for similar work as to what you could ask for it.

[Florin]

I agree, very few people are ready to pay the real value of a high quality project like this one. I must confess that I'm really charging less when I'm dealing with this, some $85-90 but this is not distubing me from my real goal: accept the challange and try to do the best I can. This is the only way to improve your technique and look for the perfection of your art. If we'll avoid this retouch cathegory for financial reasons we'll never be able to perform it. Low and mid level retouch are more convenient for our pockets, we know this, however a real artist is growing due to the hard challenges, with the hard work. Just cloning some spots and scratches will not help our continous learning process. I love retouch, I enjoy what I'm doing and this is the most important milestone for me. We also know that a happy client will be a client for life. Good stuff is selling too, maybe not every day but it does.

[Florin]

RooB, here you'll find something of your interest, how to draw an eye:
1. http://www.stval.fr/index.php?option...5&limitstart=2
2. http://www.stval.fr/index.php?option...5&limitstart=3
Have fun

[RooB]

Dang, Florin, Stephanie has uber art skills!

I was watching her speed paintings, that's pretty unreal in what she can create from scratch!

[Florin]

You could do it too. It's a practice matter. Have patience and go on

[unimatrix001]

I did a levels adjustment and used the patch tool to fill in most of the white blotches. Not finished by a long way, needs more work to get rid of the stains. the photo is a color photo.

[Florin]

Well, this is only my point of view, I'm not intending to say this is the only way, the best etc. Woking with this mess of orange tints should be a pain for my workflow. It's true that is a color picture but only one color. Just some brown-orange color so this is FOR ME useless. If I'm working in the grayscale I can appreciate better the transitions, have no problem with the tints mix and add 1 or 2 color layers is a 5 minutes end of the job. It's the same workflow of any kind of vintage image retouch, sepia for instance, you desaturate, make a great and precise retouch and just use Hue/Saturation or Color Balance to redo the equal sepia tones.
I repeat, this is my way and my technique. I'm not saying "You must do this!" etc. Every retoucher has his own way to fix the problems.

[unimatrix001]

I wasn't trying to disparage your work Florin, I wish i could do half as good as you. I was just trying to show another way to do the work with out plugins or filters. it is just my way of doing things and i am no expert, just a part time restorer.

[Florin]

Sure, dear friend. We just share opinions Every one's technique and workflow is a learning source and this includes me, I'm still a student I'm always trying to understand and learn more. Thank you very much.

[chillin]

I think it is a color picture, but also I think that Florin's work flow serves this pic well.

[sergio2263]

Originally Posted by zganie

I agree with Florin;This photo done PROPERLY would take more than 2hours (THAT SAID)

The problem with a lot of Restorations is "THE TIME" they are time consuming,THEREFORE
become expensive to do I mean take Florin"s Estimate(as an example) 6-7 hours x$25.00=$150-$175 plus cost of a print plus taxes in your area.Total?? $200-$225? How many clients are actually willing to pay this?I think not a lot

I agree with you there it's not about time it's about quality a customer would be willing to wait for longer time and have a good quality photo, I am also amazed how people just slap a high price because of the times they put in their work a business will only last as long as the customer is willing to pay the price.

I don't charge per hour I charge per the quality of my work, if I feel comfortable with a price and feel it's worth my work I charge for that but it will have to suit both myself and my client.

Many people would love to have their photos restored but cannot afford to pay the high price especially with recession at the moment I'd sooner charge an affordable price people would be willing to part recession or not than not having a business at all. It never pays to charge exorbitant price. Everyone wants a bargain IMO as long as that bargain will suit my pocket I will charge it.

The maximum I would charge for a restoration is £70 including a large print.

[FlairDevil]

Florin, I have been a member here for a long time, predominantly a "lurker" that has newly become addicted to the web live tutorials they are doing now - I'm always trying to learn =) I must comment on this job though. Your estimate of 6-7 hours seems to be very close and the quality of the end result shows in the snippit you did in an hour of her eye area. You do not get these kind of results in two hours. I don't care who you are! Anyone who thinks they are going to do that entire image and only spend a couple hours, then have the "estatic" client we all presumably strive to please, are in for a surprise. I myself can easily see spending an entire day on that image to get it to my liking and still not be completely satisfied with my results. Which brings me to an entirely different topic, when to stop? I often find myself going well above and beyond what is expected for clients in order to provide that "wow factor" that keeps them coming back. Bad business? I'm on the fence per se' on that one. Some would say if you aren't getting paid for it, don't do it. Others, like myself who are just starting out and still very passionate about the work they do and always want it to look their best it can, don't mind going the extra mile to ensure a client is enthralled with the results.

Now that I rambled on seemingly an endless amount of time, I would also like to add that you can't go wrong in my personal experience bidding jobs so that you ensure you get enough for them when you inevitably run into problems/things that take longer than expected. It is very difficult to explain to a client after the fact you need to charge more for the job, for some reason retouching is expected to be fast, cheap, and flawless.

I always like to use the quote:

"There are 3 kinds of retouches: Fast, Good, Cheap - choose two." =)