[thomasgeorge]

Sjm, You might try this--Doug gets the credit if it works--- Open your image, duplicate the background layer. Next go to image>adjust>invert. In the layers pallete select {color} as the blending mode and adjust the opacity slider to around 50 - 60%. Next, make the background layer active and mask an area showing mirroring. Adjust with curves to get it looking almost OK, then using the airbrush tool,set at around 11% pressure and large tip size lightly paint over the masked area with what color you think needs to be there.I tried this and it worked pretty well on the example I posted. In that case I used black as the color to fix the suit, but for light colored areas, use the color picker (eyedropper) to select the right shade to fix the blemish. Thanks for starting this thread!! Thanks Doug for tossing out the polarization tip. Thats the key---the migrated ionized silver is reflecting at a different wavelength--not much different, but just enough to be compensated for by some "layer and mode" play. Thanks!! Tom

[thomasgeorge]

Oops, here's the before/after. Please--I spent all of 5 min on the after--main point of interest is the left part of gentlemans suit and floor. Tom

[Ed_L]

Tom,

That's a pretty impressive fix! This has been a good thread, and worthy of a bookmark. Thanks for all the info.

Ed

[DJ Dubovsky]

Good work guys with your problem solving efforts. Looks like we may have a good fix for this type of problem in the future.

Tom_Great job restoring but I just have to say one thing. I never thought to see a restoration by you where you actually took the sepia tone out.
DJ

[thomasgeorge]

Oops--thats what happens when I try to work past my bedtime!! Tom

[Vikki]

I've also encountered this problem, with no good solution. Although I was told it's called "silvering out". I searched, but couldn't find any worthwhile remedy. I went ahead and treated it as I would any other lighting type defect.
I'll have to keep an eye on this thread, maybe someone will discover a good fix!

[thesaly]

If the "old-fashioned" way of dealing with this problem was via a polarizing filter or some such, how about a high-quality copy-neg of the original rather than making a direct scan? Either scan the neg afterwards or have a print made from the CN and scan that, depending on your available equipment.

[Vikki]

I did resort to using a copy stand. I would take about 4 photos, rotating 90 degress, and then put them on seperate layers. I would fiddle around until I got rid of the the majority "silvering". That's the only method that I've been happy with so far.

[Paul Rupp]

I have had some luck using tracing paper on the scanner between the scanner and photo. It may take a layer or 2 to cut down on the reflection of the silver halide that is showing up in your image. Scan it once without the tracing paper (or onion paper) and then scan it with the paper, with some work, you should be able to attain a very nice looking image.

I have used this several times in the past with great results. Wish I could post an image, but my clients have asked that they not be posted on the web.

Hope this helps.

Paul Rupp

[Doug Nelson]

Paul:

How do you avoid the grain of the paper? I've actually been doing some fairly extensive tests in this area (for textured prints, not for mirroring) and I've yet to find a material that doesn't add more problems than it removes. I've tried papers, vellums, plastics of all sorts... you name it.

[Paul Rupp]

Doug,
Velum is a good material to use. I couldn't think of the name when I posted. I have a local Drafting supply house that I go to that has a nice selection of papers and velum.

Another thing you could do (and I have this at my disposial as well) is take a piece of clear plexiglass and frost it yourself with a very fine sandpaper (wet is best) you'll have to experiment with several coursenesses (is that a word??) I have 3 that I have made, one with 600 grit, one with 400 and one 220, all done wet sanding. You MUST get a uniform frosting.

As gar as grain, if you do a litle gaussian blur you should be able to get any grain out.

It is still better then trying to get the silver out!

HTH

Paul Rupp

[Doug Nelson]

The best material I found so far is some .25mm styrene sheets I found at the local hobby/train shop. It looks opaque from a distance, but you can actually see your hand through it. I discarded it as a candidate because of, again, the grain. It even comes in a thinner grade which would probably be even better.

I'm still searching for the perfect material for my de-texturizing tests (there's another thread about that somewhere here).

[Mike]

Hello all

I just discovered this site and am really excited as I have been looking for such a collection of experts as you all are

I think that I can add to (help solve?) this question. Being more of a photographer than a retoucher, I have copied hundreds of old photos with this problem. We always called it "silvering". I have been unable to get rid of the effect with a scanner, however when copying with either a film or digital camera the solution is cross polorized light. What this means is that you place polorizing filters on the lights (all in the same plane), then place a polorizing filter on the camera lens, then just dial the reflection out, then make the exposure. This technique also adds to the apparent contrast of the copy image.

From some of the posts on here I am convinced that any amount of time it takes to set up and shoot the original with my camera is surely shorter than doing some of the P/S tricks that some are trying. It has been my experiance that many of the same techniques we used to use with film cameras seem to work just as well with digital cameras.

Scanners are somewhat quicker if you have to set up a copy stand and lights everytime you want to use it, but they also seem to add a lot more "dirt and specklie stuff" to the images.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth, if you have questions or comments, please pass them on.

Mike

[thomasgeorge]

Welcome aboard Mike. The "Silvering" or "mirroring" is a pretty common problem with the developing out papers and even is seen on the printing out type as well. Sadly, the oxidative-reductive cycle which produces it is irreversable, but being able to copy the original and eliminate or greatly reduce it is sure better than loosing the image for ever. Thanks for the description of using cross-polarization. If you are interested see the attachment for a close up look at mirroring(silvering-both terms appear in literature about this problem). This shows a section of a photo on developing out paper. the better looking area was shot with the light angle fairly high, the one showing the mirroring is the same area with the light at a low angle. Tom

[DJ Dubovsky]

OK this may make me look real stupid here and maybe I'm way off the mark, but if polarized lenses reduce the glare produced by how light reflects off surfaces and it seems to work for camera lenses. Why couldn't a polarized overlay placed between a textured photo or even the old photos damaged by silvering, reduce that effect? Doug mentioned looking for materials to do this, why not try a polarized overlay? I did a search and found a place that makes such a product but I don't know what the prices of such a thing would be. You can check it out here. It seems like it may be worth a try. It's possible it could affect the rest of the photo scan detail too but if you're experimenting with things why not?
DJ