A great tutorial on Skin

[shellby]

http://tutorials.smugmug.com/gallery/1169397/1

... and yes they use BLUR

[meok]

That's indeed a very interesting workflow. But I didnt think the final outcome of that technique was of much quality, the pores looks very unatural. Pretty cool technical info tho.

[shellby]

I guess it is a good technique if you have limited time to spend on an image. the dodge and burn method takes 3 to 5 hours on a single image. Some clients do not want / or do not have the budget for that amount of time. I know that we have discussed blur and bringing back texture with noise or sharpen before.

[studioj]

Where can I learn about dodge/burn method?

[byRo]

Ain't life funny.

Strange coincidences really do happen!

Both of us, separately, described the Gaussian Blur and the High-Pass filter using the exact same phrase (funny - and I always thought it was Brazilian)

The inicial retouching technique he describes, you will also find in this tutorial.

Yes, it does include a Gaussian blur, but when you combine it with a High-pass overlay the correct name would be "Band-Stop filter" (much better than just calling it a blur)

Agreed, the results may not be 100%. But between 95% in five minutes and 100% in five hours, it's gong to depend a lot on the client's necessities / possibilities.
Nice to have an option open for the quick fix when needed.

Rô

[shellby]

Further on in the tutorial he actually suggests using the Lens Blur rather than Gaussian Blur. I have found that Surface Blur is also pretty good or Median Blur in the Noise Filter as it keeps the lines.

For the Dodge and Burn look up the user HEYRAD and he outlines the technique

[shellby]

From Heyrad's post:


Everything being discussed here so far can be considered a great way of achieving the end result. The important consideration here is flexibility. If you use a GRAY layer in an overlay/soft mode, you can dodge and burn with white or black till your heart's content.. The problem is, that if your dodging and burning are on the same layers-- no flexibility... If you REALLY wanna get your hands dirty and do things the smart way... Here's a method that I developed to help get the job done with the most flexibility and control...

After I remove the pimples and do light spotting on an image, I create a layer set and call it "D&B". In that layer set I create(in this order from bottom to top) adjustment layers... Curve(LIGHTEN), Curve(DARKEN),HUE(DESAT),CURVE(CONTRAST). On the LIGHTEN curve, I lighten the mids and fill the layer with black to hide. With this layer, I'll paint with white at about 1-5% depending to lighten dark spots on the skin. on the DARKEN curve I darken the mids and fill with black as well so that I can use this to darken light spots on the skin-- the goal here is to even out the skin tones. The HUE layer is used to desaturate the image. Lord knows we get tired of looking at a monitor. Desaturating helps my eyes when I'm working on fine detail. The CONTRAST curve is helpful to display the dark/light spots better-- again for my old eyes... I select a point on the CONTRAST curve that represents the dark/light spotting of the skin and I pump an S curve in it to bring out the contrast so I can see it better... After zooming in to about elevendy billion percent to work on the fine points of the skin, I begin to zoom out and use larger brushes... When I'm finished and happy with the results. I turn off the CONTRAST and HUE curves and VIOLA.... total control. Now you can color adjust your little heart out and not effect the dodging and burning. You've got total control of the dark and light curves and you can easily revisit them with your little paint brush.

[leuallen]

Hi Shelby,

I thought the final result of the technique was rather poor. Not worth the effort compared to Ro's method.

I retouched the same girl, not the same pose, using several different methods.

The first attachment is using the Dodge/Burn method. As you say, 3-5 hours, but the results are very good.

The second attachment is using Ro's degrunge with a Dodge/Burn layer to even up the skin tones. Compare with the third attachment which is without the D/B layer. Note the blotchiness of the skin tones. The degrunge method does strange things to the transitions between skin tones and the skin highlight quality.

I find for quicker results than a full D/B treatment, that the degrunge method works well if you clean things up afterwards with a D/B layer. The work on this D/B layer is much less demanding than in the full D/B treatment because you are not concerned with the small stuff which the degrunge takes care of. All you have to do is even the skin tones which is a larger area operation and does not take as much time.

This is one of the first degrunge images I tried. I have since refined my technique and am sure that I would do it better if done over.

Some of the things I have found to work well with the degrunge method are:

Go for a slightly stronger skin texture and then back off the opacity rather than a lesser skin texture at full opacity. In other words, I take the bluring and HighPass a little past what I tihink looks good and then back off. It seems to give a more natural effect.

As to the black ringing that you get near high contrast edges. Ro says paint the skin back using a mask and staying away from these edges. What I have tried with some sucess is: (1) get rid of major blemishes with healing/cloning. (2) add a hide all mask to a COPY of the fixed layer (3) on the mask paint in the skin areas, staying slightly away from and feathering to the high contrast boundrys. (4) of course the eyes, eyebrows, and lips are not included. But I go further. If there are dark lines still in the skin, I take a small, soft brush and remove them from the skin. Areas tha usually get this treatment are under the nose and between the chin and neck. This allows these areas to be more sharply defined in the final image without any transitions being apparent. Whether to remove lines or not is a matter of judgement. If you want the features to retain definition, remove the lines as nose and chin. If you want the features to be reduced, leave the lines in as in laugh lines. (5) now instead of keeping the mask, I attatch it to the image. This gives me a cutout of the desired skin areas on a transparent background. (6) now run the HighPass and blur degrunge steps on this cutout layer. Little or no black/white areas between high contrast transitions. This layer is placed over the fixed layer and the opacity reduced. (7) D/B layer to even out skin. (8) Often the skin result looks a little flat and too soft. On the degrunge layer (skin cutout) run USM as 10-30 amount, 50 radius, 0 threshold. This perks up the skin texture without effecting the rest of the image.

If I get time I will redo the degrunge version using my latest techniques. I am sure that it will be closer to the full D/B treatment with much less time invested.

Larry

[Nanls]

Originally Posted by leuallen

Hi Shelby,

I thought the final result of the technique was rather poor. Not worth the effort compared to Ro's method.

I retouched the same girl, not the same pose, using several different methods.




Larry

Larry would you mind posting the original image? BTW, the first thing I noitced was the difference in the eyes. Was the reflection in the first image there originally?

~Nancy~


www.fixthepixs.com
www.datepixs.com

[aylaah]

Can I second the request for pointers towards the dodge/burn method please?

If this doesn't produce the results that the above method would, then I guess it's good to have options, right? Its fair to say in most lines of commerce you get what you pay for, and so it is up to a client whether they want something that bit rougher for much less cost, or something tailored and flawless for a premium.

To me though I see it that having access to a faster, easier method is not a bad thing. You don't have to prefer it, but it means you can still land the work that you'd otherwise miss by only offering the premium service.

I'm still a total baby in this field, mind you, and have had a workable camera for only oh a week? lol (as in one that takes a picture that can be worked) it just seems like logic to me, though to have options available to gain a wider scope of the market

[leuallen]

Nancy,

Don't pay too much attention to the eyes in the degrunge method. Since this was an experiment, I did not do too much with the eyes. The D/B method had more work done on the eyes. Compare the skin tones.

Original attatched.

Larry

[meok]

Just as a note; When I say that the results that guy got wasnt of quality, I didnt meant to bash the technique, quite the opposite. I think the technique makes a lot of sense. If it can be use to save some time retouching without sacrificing too much quality, It will be a major breaktru as far as Im concerned!

Anyways Im trying to play with it to see how it compares. This is a quick retouch I did with the B&D workflow which I'll compare with the highpass one as soon as I figure it out. http://byloc.com/temp (rollover for before)

[shellby]

Really good

Yip, all of the examples - bar one - on my website are with the dodge and burn method.

There are some clients like portrait photographers who want retouching done in a shorter time as they do not have a big ad agency budget.

I am always on the look out for new techniques to play around with.

[ray12]

Tried one pass.

This one uses the lowpass - but then substitutes back an "original skin" texture - touched up for the final. Have to experiment more with the high pass parts. Looks interesting.

Ray12

[meok]

Ok.. I tried to get decent skin with the highpass/blur technique but I havent had the type of results I was expecting, which was a bit dissapointing. I get very unatural artifacts, especially in highlights.. Thus, so far, I dont see how it would work for me. I am waiting for someone to prove me wrong. Im really rooting for this technique since it makes so much sense (in theory).

[studioj]

Meok: The problem most be the values that you are using for the GB and the HIGH PASS, if you use a higher value that the one byRo recomend, then you don't get any results.

I have being using this method in the last week and it works really fine, I did an action to simplify all the steps, and I'm very pleased

[buchner]

As I can see, you guys are using my photo (thats my girlfriend Irene on it) on the posts here.

Ricardo Büchner

[buchner]

and I dont mind at all! Use my image at will. I hope it helps people improve this technique.
And Irene said: "They better make me look good on the final results!"
Shes watching it... You guys take care

Ricardo Büchner

[pure]

i am really glad to use the "high pass" filter now in daily work.
my steps are more simple:

1. duplicate skin, repair, soften, brush it, that it looks smooth and soft.
2. 2nd. duplicate the original above and blend it "soft" or "overlay", then selecting "high pass" lets you see the effect easily and you push the slider in high pass as far or less as you want providing the desired sharpness of the pores and skin details...

by the way, is there any difference in effect in your method/the tutorial and this short one?

perfect!
thanks

[tristefoc]

http://ayrusis.multiply.com/photos/album/23

check this out guys, not taken by me, but how do we achieve such shininess? I know we've got the highpass plus clone tools and dodge and burn, but anyone can give an idea how such a shine is given?

[ray12]

pure,

I also do the high pass on the second layer and use softlight mode.

I used to make my texture masks in mono and then level set them to 128 or 50% with the eye dropper measuring tools. Did fine with that - but the high pass seems to place its textured results onto a good netural gray layer automatically - thus eliminating a step.

One thing I do often is take the high pass mask and smart sharpen it really high to 130-180%. It really emphasizes the skin pore details really well - and if its too much - I can use a layer mask to paint the texture on with a low opacity brush - or use the layers opacity slider to tone down the whole effect to just the level I want.

The high pass layer - all by itself- is usually not strong enough most of the time to give me the full strength of the effect im looking for.

Just another twist.

Ray

[edgework]

Originally Posted by tristefoc

http://ayrusis.multiply.com/photos/album/23

check this out guys, not taken by me, but how do we achieve such shininess? I know we've got the highpass plus clone tools and dodge and burn, but anyone can give an idea how such a shine is given?

You should check out this link: http://www.thelightsrightstudio.com/photoshop-tools.htm

Dozens of highly useful actions, generously offered for all who are interested. These are not just recordings of simple steps; they reveal a solid understanding of Photoshop's deeper, more arcane structures. Their creator posts on this site frequently and the rest of his site is worth a long visit.

In particular, the Diffuse Glows actions will give you a great place to start from. Examine how they're constructed and you'll be a long way towards coming up with your own work flow.

A believable shine has to play off the natural contours of the subject. Try duping and blurring your image, put it in Screen, Soft Light, Overlay or Hard Light mode. Focus the effect on the areas that are already light with a blurred mask taken from one of your channels, probably Green. Use the Blend If... sliders to narrow the focus even more. Tune the intensity of the effect with opacity. Be careful though; it's easy to get carried away. A little glow goes a long way.

[shellby]

tristefoc:

Looking at those images - especially the arms - I believe that the model has been smeared with oil. This is what photographers use to achieve the shiny look, baby oil mixed with other kinds of oil and hair gel (read this in a recent photography magazine)

[john_opitz]

Originally Posted by shellby

tristefoc:

Looking at those images - especially the arms - I believe that the model has been smeared with oil. This is what photographers use to achieve the shiny look, baby oil mixed with other kinds of oil and hair gel (read this in a recent photography magazine)

Hello Shellby,

These home applications are not new to a lot who have been in the industry (models, photographers and art directors). If you have that kind of control when photographing. Do the above before shooting. also, you can take iodine and add to the baby oil. To give it an orange effect. You can also use artificial sun tanning lotions, as well, as a second choice to facial/body make-up. Testing these home applications under photographic tests are recommended, to see how well they record.
What one can also do, is send the model to a spa. For a body waxing (legs, areas of unwanted hair), skin cleansing (deep pore cleaning), manicure, pedicure.. A lot of models have this done before hand, part of the models' fee one pays for. Make-up/Full body make-up, also helps. For times it called for. Hair/Make-up artists are very good in this dept. with the oil base make-ups, for that glow. But expensive. This reduces image-editing time as well as the cost of retouching. You should weigh the cost though. From a production stand point, this is inexpensive, they would not even give the cost a second look.. For a photographer/model (internet model who does not have an agent/agency) who has to pick up the cost by him/her self, it can be expensive. For someone who is not at that production stand point. The oil, oil/iodine, or artificial sun tanning lotion is a second choice with the addition of the spa visit (leg waxing anyway). Better from a photographic stand point, then shaving Unless it not called for. You can always retouch it out, if someone changes their mind
Some of these products one can purchase from specialty make-up distributors. Joe Blasco' (do a Google search) has a specialty line of make-up. Not only for facial, also for body make-up. He's one of the make-up artists for production movies, or was. And not only for those horror movies either. One, I remember was a heavy white titanium (yes, metal) base make-up, this was his brand of make-up. It had to be applied every 15 min. under hot lights. It was that heavy. It just sagged between the body heat and the hot lights. Photographically, it didn't record any pores of the skin. And the skin glowed. The effect reminded me of a ceramic china doll. What I was told from the ole' ti'ma's was this heavy white titanium base make-up was used in b & w work at one time. But, I see it used for color work as well. Make-up artists know how to add different tints to this stuff as well for color work (skin tones). One thing I remember is that, that titanium base make-up. The key to applying it was to go lightly, not heavy. A little went a long way.

John

[pure]

i agree.

i think the more professional and expensive the campaigns are (like dior or gucci) the better the models are caressed. i sometimes ask myself why i have to cut the nails and make feet pedicure and manicure. that may be the reason. if they have to pay it on their own, the models wont go to bodycare every week. if i was a model i better go and get there.

[PatrickB]

I have two suggestions on my mind I'd like to share:

As I hardly know about any model with severe skin-problems I assume a skin with only minor blemishes to be retouched. Hence, I concentrate on very small areas which need to be flattened.

So the first solution would be to use the spot healing brush on those blemishes. Simple but if set to a very small size I cannot spot a difference to the D&B method.

The second one is to use a second layer, apply gaussian or whatever you like and paint with a very small brush in the mask to only hide the "blemished" area.

The D&B method has a great outcome since it's so detailed and I correct every bit by itself, while all the other method use the sledgehammer "run a steamroller across" technique annihilating every tiny bit of detail.

Patrick

[shellby]

john_opitz:

I wasn't implying that the methods where new, only that I read it in a recent photography magazine.

I was answering the question of how these images where done -

Originally Posted by tristefoc
http://ayrusis.multiply.com/photos/album/23

[Akbar Tahir]

hi everyone

[pure]

Originally Posted by PatrickB

So the first solution would be to use the spot healing brush on those blemishes. Simple but if set to a very small size I cannot spot a difference to the D&B method.

The second one is to use a second layer, apply gaussian or whatever you like and paint with a very small brush in the mask to only hide the "blemished" area.
Patrick

thats right, except that i cant deliver a picture which is kind of blurry in any region of skin. the photographers wont accept it, they want to see every pore and detail. so 90% of the working examples here in this forum are looking blurred slightly.
i dont want to offend or dislike your examples, as i also did it like you and i liked it a bit blurred. its only that the client wont accept it. its his opinion.

thats what i am still trying to figure out and cant find a solution, especially when i see billboards of great plain and even skin commercials, where you see every pore and no blur.

currently i am working on skin like:

1. small or medium spots & lines: healing brush, tiny size

3. large blotched areas: d&b or Shellbys 50%grey method sometimes.

2. worst case skin, very blotchy and spotty, whole body:
surface blur & Highpass

i am still looking desperately for faster skin repair methods, as some photographers dont have the budget for relative timeconsumptive work methods like d&b or 50%grey (regarding bikini/fashion/underware commercials or nude people)

[shellby]

Slow but perfect I might add

This is a hard one. I am also finding that people want the perfect non-blurred skin but are not prepared to pay for the time. These take between 2 and 5 hours, depending on the image. How long does it take you out there? Then there are other things such as make each strand of hair straight and so on and so on...

Do you guys tend to stay clear if people who make unrealistic requests, or do you offer the blur method as a faster option?

Oh and the 50% gray is dodge and burn. Avoid using the actual dodge and burn tools as this is destructive to the pixels. The gray layer and painting in with 5% white or black to dodge or burn is non-destructive.