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Stupid question on Saving Selections`

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  #11  
Old 06-23-2006, 01:36 PM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Here are the two things I get. One is the b channel and one is the saved selection of the b channel into a new document.
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File Type: jpg B-Channel.jpg (99.3 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg saved-selection.jpg (99.6 KB, 10 views)
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2006, 02:28 PM
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Flora Flora is offline
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Hi Isaac,

Quote:
Originally Posted by imann08
As far as the saving selection deal goes, I don't need any help with the actual image
I hadn't asked because I thought you needed help with the picture ... I simply wanted to replicate the procedure you were following to see if I had the same problem ... for this reason I thought it would be better if we were experimenting on the same picture ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by imann08
If you want to see the image I am dealing with and how it is explained then just go to Margulis' LAB book. I am going to assume you have it.
No, I don't have it ...

Murray,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermonday
I made the same selection of Great Grandma, however in my case the new grayscale document is exactly matching the B channel of the originlal image. There is no inversion.
Just curious... How did you select the B channel? ...

Was it:

1) by Ctrl+A select canvas? (this way you select all the pixels in the image and this selection will always look exactly as the original indipendently of the colour of the background of the document or Layer it will be pasted on)


2) by Ctrl+click on it or by clicking on the 'Load Channel as a Selection' button at the bottom of the channels Palette?... (this is the way that could give you the 'inverted look' if pasted on a 'New document' with a white background ... Could I, please, ask you to try this? ... Could you then change the colour of the background of the 'New document' to black and to transparent and paste the same selection on them?

I'd really like to know if your results will also 'look' very different from each other .... but still, as you already said, having exactly the same values since you never changed anything in your selection.

Thank you in advance..
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  #13  
Old 06-24-2006, 08:30 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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"All roads lead to Rome (or Milan)"

Hi Flora,
Firstly, it is worth noting that everything in the B channel is above the midpoint of its range (no Blue). In a LAB image the mid point for Luminosity selection is 50 (B Value = 0 to +128). When I select the luminosity of the B Channel with any of the following:
- Ctrl + Alt + 3
- Crtl + Click on B
- Load Layer as selection button (with B selected),
it appears as if the whole channel is being selected which it is except at reduced opacity proportional to the luminance. As you point out, this is different from selecting B and doing Ctrl + A.

Now with the B Channel still active I copy the selection and paste it inot a new document with a white background, it will look almost all white but it is not. If you look carefully, you will see a reduced opacity version of the B channel which is the Luminosity. Because the background is white, it is difficult to see the pattern but it is there. In fact if you turn off the white background layer and place an eyedropper target on her hat and her hand, and look at the Lightness Value values in the info window, you will see they are exactly the same as in the B channel (about 72 on the hat and about 67 on the hand).
If you paste the selection onto a black background, the image gets darker but it is not inverted. Moreover if you turn off the black background, and view the eyedropper tagets, they have the same values as in the B channel.
The same is true for pasting the selection onto a transparent background where it will be really difficult for you to see the image but it is there.

Using the method Dan uses in his book - Save Selection as New Document creates a multichannel document which basically pastes the luminosity selection onto a 50% gray background causing it to look exactly like the original B channel.

So far, there are no inversions anywhere. The images that Isaac uploaded are definitely inverses of each other. If you apply them in subtract mode, the result is black. I have not been able to duplicate his inversion.

Best Regards, Murray

Last edited by mistermonday; 06-25-2006 at 12:13 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-24-2006, 08:40 PM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Flora,

Sorry about that. Here is the image untouched other than it was switched to RGB so that I could get it to you. Did you see what I posted with my results?
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File Type: jpg great-great-grandmother-cop.jpg (98.6 KB, 3 views)
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2006, 08:51 PM
imann08 imann08 is offline
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Murray,

I'm doing it verbatim to what Dan describes in the book. (Yes, we're on a first name basis) I do the control+alt+3 and then save as new selection and what I attached to my post is what I get. The funny thing is this is just the new document. If I move the image in that new document to a the original image then it turns back into the b channel I wanted to see in the new document. So, for some reason it inverses it's way into a new doc but remembers its original values for when it is placed back into a LAB image. I'm clueless.
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2006, 09:58 PM
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mistermonday mistermonday is offline
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Isaac, after you have selected the luminosity, and you Select > Save Selection, there are 2 choices in the Pull-Down Menu of the dialog box. If you leave the default and you save the selection as a new channel, then your image will be inverted and saves as a new channel in the same image that you are working on. If you select New Document from the pull down menu, then PS will create a new image with a singe layer (mode will be Multichannel)and it will look identical to the the B channel and it will not be inverted. So are you actually saving the selection to a channel or to a new document? Or you are not doing a Copy and Paste of the selection?
Regards, Murray
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2006, 05:34 AM
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Flora Flora is offline
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Hi,

Murray,

thank you so much for taking the time to experiment with the copy+paste I thought was at the origin of Isaac's problem! ... Needles to say, your results were exactly the same as mine!

Isaac,

thank you for the picture!

I've been trying to find something on the Internet, particularly on the Adobe site and to reproduce your definite 'inversion' in this couple of days... but like Murray, I couldn't duplicate it by simply saving the selection as a New Document.

Attachment 1 show the path I followed to save the selection as a New Document.

Attachment 2 shows the New multichannel Document. (like for Murray, identical to the LAB B channel).

Attachment 3 ... the only way I was able to duplicate your inversion was by inverting Ctrl+I either the B Channel immediately, or the New Document after saving...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SNAP-044.jpg (53.5 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-045.jpg (64.9 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg SNAP-046.jpg (33.3 KB, 1 views)
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