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Photo Retouching "Improving" photos, post-production, correction, etc.

Skin texture

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  #11  
Old 04-26-2007, 05:16 PM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Skin texture

nevermind. point is, a shortcut is a shortcut and it shows. No one in New York is getting paid good money to use a shortcut. Do whatever you want and can get away with. You aren't going to make a good living pushing buttons and that is what everyone should remember.

I don't want to argue texture or not, nor technique. It's the final product that counts.

You speak as if you have no experience with high quality imagery. Perhaps that is where we are differing.

I had no idea who Greg Apodaca was until I googled him. Guy is a douche of the highest order and for you to even mention him in this discussion is pointless but very telling. Some of the worst looking stuff I've seen. Simply horrid. I don't know who pays him, but it would be funny for him to come work here. He even has a .mac homemade website....

retouchpro kills me.
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  #12  
Old 04-26-2007, 05:47 PM
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byRo byRo is offline
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Re: Skin texture

Just thought I'd point out.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyJ View Post
..... his technique that used surface blur on the underlying skin then a high pass filter to bring out the desired skin texture.
.. is pretty much equivalent to deGrunge. If carefully done it can give better results because you don't have to worry about getting too close to the edges.
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2007, 06:06 PM
KR1156 KR1156 is offline
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Re: Skin texture

i used to cheat skin....then basically had the hi-end guy who took me under his wing slap all that nonsense out of me, but more importantly, going beyond skinwork, it really helped me develop my eye.

d&b is only way i go, no matter what the project...and if it's a low paid editorial, still do d&b. no matter what the deal, i do it the right way 1st time around.
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2007, 06:26 PM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Re: Skin texture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant View Post
I don't know who pays him, but it would be funny for him to come work here. He even has a .mac homemade website....
...maybe thats because he works for Apple Computer as a Senior Print Production Designer

You seem to be completely missing the point - the point being, regardless of what you think of his work he is a PROFESSIONAL in the industry, so to say that professionals dont use these techniques is clearly false.

But lets be realistic here ant, you're all mouth and no trousers, you talk big and rubbish everyone's work - but you've not the balls to show any of your own work, or even prove that you're not just a pretentious forum troll. If you really feel the way you post, why bother coming here at all? You're completely closed minded and have no desire to contribute to the learning environment of this forum. You have nothing to offer and you clearly feel you have nothing to learn so whats the point?

I have evidence to backup my arguments, where's yours? Sweeping statements without any citation or even annecdotal evidence dont equal truth.
This technique is shunned by ignorant industry snobs who see the word blur and turn up their noses, without considering the fact that a) the blur isnt applied to the skin at all, and b) the technique is founded on solid principles of image theory.
The attached image took around 5 minutes - and would take that amount of time regardless of the size of image. Its far from perfect/finished but its a lot closer than it was 5 minutes before I started.
Blur is just another tool, its not evil or dirty or forbidden.
If you work exclusively in very high end ad campaigns then your clients can afford to have you fix every single pixel by hand but thats not the 'norm'.

You would be hard pressed to find this sort of snobbery in other industries - my mum works in cosmetic research - I can just imagine her telling her clients that she *could* run all their results through the stats package on her computer but instead she's going to do it all by hand and bill by the hour. I can really see them queueing up for that one.
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File Type: jpg degrunge.jpg (98.8 KB, 412 views)
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2007, 07:35 PM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Skin texture

BIG DEAL HE WORKS FOR MAC. He also doesn't do retouching there. Because some moron gets paid to retouch and uses blur means what anyway, that it's viable? NO.

Point is is that you don't get it that you are arguing a ridiculous thing.

Your example image LOOKS BLURRED. It's glowing!It looks bad. PERIOD. Also, it's a tiny web jpg.

All mouth and no trousers? One, I give valid advice here and never troll. I have never called something a piece of shit that did not deserve that name. Do a search for 'find all posts by this user' before you slam me in a public forum with untruths. If it's not put in a way that is polite enough for you then gfy or get over it. I could care.

Two, you want me to put up examples for YOU or others here to critique? Like I said in another thread, it would be much like asking 4 year olds to a wine tasting. I have been a high end retoucher for over 8 years, 5 and a half in NYC. I put in 2250-3500 hours a year doing this, mostly on ads. Also, you want me to participate in the retouching or manipulation of tiny, low quality jpgs here? My time is very expensive and I'm a busy individual. What do you do for a living, where do you live?

My evidence? High end professional job experience in the retouching capital of the world, education, peers and industry standards. Yours? Katrin Eisman, Greg Apodaca and other hacks and their websites and books for people just like you? Those that will never make a decent living manipulating photos - Doodlers.

LISTEN TO YOURSELF. YOU ARE ADVOCATING SHORTCUTS/BUTTON PUSHING WHEN IT COMES TO RETOUCHING. YOU HAVE NO LEGS TO STAND ON AND SEEM TO BE ARGUING FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUING.

What I'm really saying is that you should stop giving advice. I'm most adverse to the inanity here. The poor advice, the glad handing, the ATROCIOUS examples... the list doesn't stop.

Why don't you start a Poll or something as to the validity of my critiques. See if others want me here and keep your doodling to yourself as well as your poor technique, advice and taste.
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  #16  
Old 04-26-2007, 11:56 PM
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lkroll lkroll is offline
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Re: Skin texture

I'm a huge fan of byRo's Degrunging technique. In combination of other things (i.e., air brushing/smudging, cloneing, and/or healing brush work), you can get pretty good results.

Hope Nancy doesn't mind me using one of her images. I've been working on another way to degrunge using Adaptive Contrast Enhancement (GIMP). Dup for a total of three layers, run ACE on the Top layer and set to Grain Extract. Merge down and set to Overlay at 50% Opacity. Now dup the base layer and blur the middle layer and adjust the Opacity (hat's off to byRo for this as part of his quick technique that I used here). Copy the Base layer on Top and commence to erasing. Now I did not do any cloning or healing brush (GIMP doesn't have a healing brush) work. Just wanted to show this variation in it's pure sense. Note that facial indentions turned into pimples. lol
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  #17  
Old 04-27-2007, 01:32 AM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Re: Skin texture

Ant, you're just showing your complete ignorance of image theory. Just because you do it by hand doesnt mean your method is superior - far from it, there is increased opportunity for human error in a manual technique.
The technique - or certainly the variant that I use, is dodge and burn but it takes a fraction of the time.
In the attached image, the skin has been smoothed using dodge and burn - it took < 1 minute and aside from the masking and computational time, it would take that amount of time on a 3Gb file (many of which I have worked on) absolutely no blurring was used in this image - what was used is a solid foundation in digital image theory. But ofcourse, if you knew as much as you think you know then you'd know how it was done and know why it is faster and superior to a manual technique. Yes there are still flaws that need to be fixed by hand, but they are few and quick to fix.
But I'm sure you'll say this one is blurred and glowing too - still not backing up your statements with facts or evidence though are you? You think its blurred because you know that gaussian blur was used in the process and presumably you think its glowing because you think I'm using a technique that I'm not. There is no edge glow in my technique.

As for your valid critique - I did do a 'find all posts' by user before posting last night and what I found was around 90% rude obnoxious trolling or otherwise pointless posts and at a push 10% containing genuine constructive critique or helpful commentary.

You're such a 'busy man' and your time is so 'expensive' yet you find plenty of time to berate those you consider to be '4 year olds' in comparison to yourself. My time is very expensive but I'm not a busy woman, because I make a damn good living working 20 hours a week. Theres a limit to how much money you actually need or could usefully spend.

Unless you're prepared to put your money where your mouth is and back yourself up with more than just your self-inflated ego, you're just a little man trying to look big on the internet.
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File Type: jpg smooth.jpg (88.7 KB, 276 views)
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  #18  
Old 04-27-2007, 06:40 AM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Skin texture

You are hilarious. Your image looks like crap. Stop while you are way behind.
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2007, 06:46 AM
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NancyJ NancyJ is offline
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Re: Skin texture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant View Post
You are hilarious. Your image looks like crap. Stop while you are way behind.
yet again you completely miss the point, further showing your ignorance and fail to back up your opinions and statements with anything based on fact
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  #20  
Old 04-27-2007, 07:51 AM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Skin texture

What is your point? I'd love to know. If someone gets paid to blur something or take a shortcut that means it looks good? no.

Your continued personal attacks are amusing. FACT. I don't care what your technique. It's the end result that matters. Your examples do not look good. You would be laughed at. This isn't 1992. That may fly in Norwood or West Sussex or Oklahoma, but not in the real world.

It's the end result that matters. Your end results, no matter the methods achieved to get there, do not look acceptable.

The FACT is you are a button pusher and advocating button pushing. The results are not the same. Your kind are found all over - most especially in photography. Take the science and tech part of everything, but can't make a decent image for the life of you.

There is a reason people pay many thousands of dollars for work on their ads. The effect they are after cannot be created by pushing a button. FACT.
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