Dodge and Burn Problems on a Camera RAW Image

[dianajenna]

I'm just now attempting to do my first face retouch on a Camera RAW image. A few days ago I did a dry run for the fun of it on the same image as a jpg. (I didn't have the RAW file yet.) I'm using the dodge and burn method with the two separate Curves adjustment layers painting white on the black mask. I've got the soft white brush set to 100% opacity with flow at 4%.

Ok, why is it that the jpg image seemed to come out looking better than the RAW file is so far? When I clicked darken darken darken on a pixel on the jpg file it just gradually darkened the same color tone. On the RAW file it's darkening in a grey tone. Right now I'm very disappointed in how the RAW file retouch is going.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.
Diana

[dianajenna]

Should the Blending Mode be set to something other than Normal, maybe?

Diana

[pellepiano]

Use a layer with 50% grey set to Overlay. Then paint with white and black on low opacity. Its a simple effective way to dodge and burn.

[dianajenna]

Thanks. I added the gray layer, and I've been using it along with the two Curves layers. If one way doesn't look right, I undo and try the other.

With the Camera Raw image the skin is so very mottled when you zoom in. I guess that's normal? It's just A LOT of darkening and lightening compared to the jpg image. So, it seems that dodging and burning on a RAW image is harder and more intense than a jpg. Am I right in that assumption?

Thanks,
Diana

[pellepiano]

Dont you adjust the raw image before taking it into PS?

[dianajenna]

This is my first RAW image that I've worked with. So, by adjust before opening PS I guess I don't know what you mean. What all should I do before I switch to PS? I'm clueless, I guess. Thanks for any advice. I would sure appreciate it!

Diana

[dianajenna]

Wellll, I guess I'm going to have to resort to Cloning and Healing, because my usual dodge and burn method isn't working. The lady's skin up close and personal is a texture of tiny white and orangey spotting. So every time I try to dodge on a dark orange spot it just turns a peachy color. I must be braindead, because I'm not getting it yet what is so great about Camera Raw. It's giving me one big headache.

Any ideas? I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Diana

[KR1156]

don't forget that after you dodge & burn, your skin color, wether it be a little blotchy or whatever, is not set in stone.

try masking out the skin, and doing a little color work after you've cleaned up the skin and D&B'd. Even out the tone.

Dodge & Burn is not the miracle! just another step in a long process.

[dianajenna]

Right now I'm cloning and spot healing, and every now and then trying d&b again. It's just really weird to me that the same image as a jpg was fairly easy to dodge and burn, yet now that I've got the RAW file it all seems to be a mess. Instead of the skin color lightening a little it turns a strange peachy color. I've got the blending mode set to Normal for each of the two Curves d&b layers. Is that the right mode?

And I'm still not sure what pellepiano means by "Don't you adjust the raw image before taking it into PS?" I mean it doesn't look to me that you can dodge and burn until you do get the image in PS. I'm missing something. Yikes!

Diana

[KR1156]

i use the same method, 2 curves, in normal mode..to D&B.

but after i'm done with that, 99% of the time i start a new folder for my color moves. skin color often is blotchy to begin with, especially with digital photography. D&B will def enhance the uggly color areas. so you have to even out the skin tone, be it overall, or in certain sections. try desat some of the red's & yellows a bit, that's usually a good starting point. then do what you do to get that healthy looking skin!

[camilla_k]

i dont understand the problem here...


you have to adjust the raw image BEFORE you start fixing it
photoshop cs3 has a great raw converter where you can do whatever you like with it

very handy ...

[dianajenna]

I have CS2, so maybe there's something different/better in CS3? But, what I'm wondering is what exactly is meant by "doing adjustments first". For instance, do you mean the hue saturation contrast kind of stuff? And are you saying that it's preferred to do whatever those adjustments are first before opening in PS? Since this is the first image I've ever seen in RAW, I'm at a loss.

Thanks everybody for your patience!

Diana

[dianajenna]

KR1156

Thanks for the tip. I did take down the red and yellow already, but I lowered them some more. It seems to be helping, if for no other reason than to make all the amoeba-looking squiggles all over the skin to look more neutral in color. I guess I can add color back in when I'm done - if that ever happens. HaHa

[shellby]

by adjusting I think people mean in Adobe RAW you adjust the temp, white balance and so on. Then you save it down as a TIF. Open the TIF file in Photoshop and begin retouching. Do some cleaning with clone and healing tool. Then start your dodge and burn on a softlight layer.

Yes it will be REALLY different and take a LOT longer on a high resolution TIFF file that on a jpg. There will be much more detail there. That is why for high end work they shoot in RAW as all the pores and details are picked up in the skin. Where I work we spend one to two working days retouching a face. The image is shot on a high end digital back (22 mega pxl camera) these produce images at A3 size straight out of the camera.

Just keep going - eventually you will start to see a difference.

[Photo678]

dont forget that you can adjust the dodge and burn tool for highlights, shadows, or midtones

[camilla_k]

Originally Posted by dianajenna

I have CS2, so maybe there's something different/better in CS3? But, what I'm wondering is what exactly is meant by "doing adjustments first". For instance, do you mean the hue saturation contrast kind of stuff? And are you saying that it's preferred to do whatever those adjustments are first before opening in PS? Since this is the first image I've ever seen in RAW, I'm at a loss.

Thanks everybody for your patience!

Diana

yes its the hue saturation contrast kind of thing. here you set the wanted whitebalance, exposure, contrasts etc etc. then like someone said, you convert it to a tiff format. preferly 16-bit for the greater color range.

the adobe raw converter in photoshop cs3 is actually much much better. more options.

can i ask what kind of camera + software this raw pic is from?

[dianajenna]

Hi Camilla_k,

I didn't do much in the way of adjustments in RAW first. I changed to 16 bit and took down the saturation a little in the reds and yellows. Everything else I left as is because the picture was taken by an actual photographer, and I figured he knew more than me about white balance, etc. In other words, I didn't want to mess anything up that he purposely tried to create. He said he used a Canon, but I can't remember the exact model. I'm at work right now, but I'll get that info when I get home.

Thanks much for your help!

[dianajenna]

Where I work we spend one to two working days retouching a face.


Well, I guess I know how I'm going to be spending my weekend. Haha

[dianajenna]

Originally Posted by camilla_k

can i ask what kind of camera + software this raw pic is from?

It's a Canon 5D. I'm not a photographer, so I don't know if that's good or bad. I don't know what kind of software the photographer used, but I've got it in Photoshop now.

Diana

[molabar]

Originally Posted by dianajenna

I have CS2, so maybe there's something different/better in CS3? But, what I'm wondering is what exactly is meant by "doing adjustments first". For instance, do you mean the hue saturation contrast kind of stuff? And are you saying that it's preferred to do whatever those adjustments are first before opening in PS? Since this is the first image I've ever seen in RAW, I'm at a loss.

Thanks everybody for your patience!

Diana

Diana I´think that I know what you aren´t understanding (perhaps not), When he said "doing adjustments first". and "those adjustments are first before opening in PS?" they are talking about managing Raw files. The Raw file format is prepare to saave all the optical signals directly from the camera, This format needs to be processed by a firmware or software in order to get a bitmap file that you can edit in an image editing software (like Photoshop). The camera firmware can make this process and give us a JPEG file if you like to use the RAW file you need a software to make the process. Nikon, canon, etc, have software to manage their own RAW files (nef, cr2), develop with color adjustments and convert this in any standard file format like tiff, or bmp or jpeg. But Adobe (apple too) has software to mage raw files if you double click or drag a raw file to your PS, Adobe Camera Raw open, and there you can make a lot of color adjustements crops etc,. These adjustments never modified the raw file, because after you make the adjustments you need to export to another format and THEN you can edit in Photoshop. I don´t know and I can´t understand what is happened with d&b (I understand that something is wrong) but is impossible apply them to a raw file, you must convert it before edit in Photoshop. that is the meaning of doing adjustments first and before opening iin photoshop.
Forgive my bad english,
Mariano

[molabar]

Originally Posted by dianajenna

It's a Canon 5D. I'm not a photographer, so I don't know if that's good or bad. I don't know what kind of software the photographer used, but I've got it in Photoshop now.

Diana

You can use Digital Photo Professional is a Canon Software to manage adjust and covert the Raw files, You have curves, white balance, sharpening and batch process to develop large quantities of files.
You can use AdobeCameraRaw is a Photoshop plug-in, I´m sure that you are using it because if you open a raw file in Photoshop CameraRaw opens.
Adobe develop a new software with the base of camera raw calls Photoshop Lightroom a very complete software not only to develop the files, you can index, presentations, contac sheets and web catalogues. It is amazing but is the version 1 needs to improve in some areas.
Mariano

[camilla_k]

Originally Posted by dianajenna

It's a Canon 5D. I'm not a photographer, so I don't know if that's good or bad. I don't know what kind of software the photographer used, but I've got it in Photoshop now.

Diana

well a canon 5d is a great camera. its one of the top models of digitial slr's canon has at the moment. if it was a nikon image i could helped you a bit more cause i know that myself. so are you figuring out what to do with this?

[dianajenna]

Originally Posted by camilla_k

well a canon 5d is a great camera. its one of the top models of digitial slr's canon has at the moment. if it was a nikon image i could helped you a bit more cause i know that myself. so are you figuring out what to do with this?

I think I'm getting there. Instead of using the two Curves layers or the 50% gray layer method it seems to be working best for this image to use two blank layers. One for lighten using a white brush (20% opacity and 100% fill in layers palette and 2% brush flow). And one for darken using skin tone colored brush (40% opacity and 100% fill in layers palette and 2% brush flow). This recipe came about with A LOT of trial and error. By sampling the skin tone for the dark color instead of using black or grey I don't get the blackish dots I was getting when I tried to darken. I've got a long way to go still, because the model's complexion is sort of rough, but I think I can get there now.

Thanks everyone for your help!