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The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

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  #1401  
Old 11-24-2008, 03:33 PM
julianmarsalis julianmarsalis is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRum View Post
i think i postet here for a while...

here is my german Tutorial,

Die Bearbeitung ist in der Zeit entstanden wo jeder wissen wollte wie Dave Hill oder Jim Fiscus seine Bilder bearbeitet, gerade das hat mich dabei inspiriert und ich wollte es eben genau in diese Richtung gehen lassen.
Ich hab die Arbeit jetzt noch mal überarbeitet und versucht das lästige Rauschen zu mildern...

Das Bild ist aber eigentlich aus einer Photoshop-Battle entstanden in welcher mein Gegner, wie man unschwer übersehen kann, "Archaeopteryx" hieß....

Ausgangsfoto waren folgende...
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6...ksjfak8vn6.jpg

Bearbeitung
  • Ich hatte zu allererst mal mein Foto (Portait) von mir bearbeitet. Hab dort ganz einfache Beauty-Retusche berieben, Flecken weg stempeln, ausbessern etc. Dann die Haut etwas bearbeitet mit abpudern, weichzeichnen und dann eben D&B mit Hilfe des Kanalmixer und dem Blau-Kanal. Also eigentlich nichts besonderes sondern nur das Foto etwas angepasst ohne speziell Kontraste heraus zuarbeiten.
  • Den Kopf hab ich dann freigestellt und eingefügt, den Hals dann eben noch etwas gestempelt, die Kapuze ausgewählt, kopiert, gespeigelt, und etwas transformiert mittels Verkümmen und Verflüssigen.
  • Dann hab ich den Löffel weg gestempelt und den linken Arm kopiert und gespiegelt als rechten eingefügt. Schatten hab ich einfach Schwarz reingemalt, weichgezeichnet und die Deckkraft angepasst.
  • Das Messer und diese Teil zum Schärfen hab ich mit Photoshop erstellt. Also zunächst mal die Grundform mit Pfaden erstellt und schwarz gefüllt. Dann über die Ebeneneffekte eine Velaufsumsetzung und Glanz hinzugefügt. Einen der der Messer-Form entsprechenden Teil unter dem Messer kopiert und im Ebenenmodus mit dem Messer verrechnet als Spiegeltung. Dann noch etwas Rauschen hinzugefügt un et voila...dasselbe bei dem anderen Teil...
  • Die Ur-Vogel hab ich ebenfalls freigetsellt und eingefügt. Die Schatten etc. hab ich auch wieder ganz einfach eingemalt im Ebenemodus multiplizieren bzw negativ multiplizieren...

Damit war mein Grundmontage fertig.
http://www.photoshop-cafe.de/werke_g...ntagejfwg5.jpg

Jetzt hab ich mich an den "Look" gemacht..
  • Da hab ich etwas rumgespielt und experimentiert...Hochpass-Filter, USM, Selektiver Scharfzeichner, Schwarz/Weiß, Lucis, LCE etc. in verschiedenen Ebenenmodis und mit verschiedenen Masken (meistens einfach reingemalt, teilweise aber auch Konturenmasken und Luminanzmasken). Ich musste da halt wirklich selektiv arbeiten und jedes Pixel anders angehen, beim Pullover kam das Rauschen ganz schnell hervor, die Farb- & Helligkeitshalos traten unterschiedlich auf etc. also hab ich wirklich selektiv jedes Stück anders angehen müssen. Das Bild war aber wie gesagt ganz schnell verrauscht wo ich dann auch wieder mit Matter machen, Weichzeichnen etc. entgegenwirken musste.
  • Ich hab um die 50 Ebenen alleine für die Kontrast-Anpassung gebraucht, hab da aber auch relativ schlampig gearbeitet und das Bild in einer neuen Ebene zusammengefügt und weiter bearbeitet so das ich auch ganz schnell nichts mehr editieren konnte =(. Aber daraus hab ich gelernt.
  • Am Ende hab ich stark verauschte Stellen einfach gewischfingert, vorallem die Nylon-Jacke...
  • Dann natürlich noch mal mit D&B die Highlights gesetzt, Teilweise hab ich aber auch einfach mit Weiß Lichter eingemalt, am Linken Arm das Streiflicht, im Gesicht links oder am Brötchen.
  • Der Hintergrund hat vorallem gerrauscht, den hab ich dann mehrfach weichgezeichnet und andere texturen überlagert.
  • Am Ende dann eben Feintunig mit Spots (Beluchtungsfilter auf grau Ebene und Ebendmous Weiches Licht) aufs gesicht gesetzt, und den Rändern eine Vignettierung hinzugefügt. Schwarz-Weiß Ebene erstellt und auf multiplizieren mit geringer deckkraft drüber. Farbbalnce und einen leichten Blaustich hinzugefügt.


So hier nun das Werk

http://www.photoshop-cafe.de/werke_g...ewsmallri3.jpg
Klicken für größere Ansicht

Wichtig ist gut und richtig ausgeleuchtets Fotomaterial....

And a BeforeAfter of the other ;;

http://www.abload.de/thumb/robby_mg_1709_vnbrr2.jpg
From Google lets see how close did it get:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRum
Google Translation: German » English


Here is my german tutorial

The editing is in the era where everyone wanted to know how Dave Hill or Jim Fiscus his pictures processed, which has just inspired me here and I wanted it precisely in this direction can go.
I have to work again now revise and attempt to mitigate annoying noise ...

The picture is actually from a Photoshop battle arose in what my opponents, how hard can see, "Archeopteryx" said ....

Original photo were the following ...
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6...ksjfak8vn6.jpg

Processing

* I had all my first photo (Portrait) edited by me. Have there very simple beauty retouching berieben, stamped away stains, etc. Then mend the skin slightly edited with abpudern, Blur, and then just D & B using the channel mixer and the blue channel. So really nothing special but the photo something without specifically adapted to serve contrasts.
* The head I then inserted and released, then the neck just something stamped, the hood is selected, copied, gespeigelt, and somewhat transformed by liquefying and wither.
* Then I stamped the spoon away and left arm copied and mirrored a right-inserted. Shadow I just reingemalt black, soft and the opacity adjusted.
* The knife and sharpening this part I created with Photoshop. So first times the basic shape with paths and are filled with black. Then the plane on a Velaufsumsetzung effects and gloss added. One of the knife-shaped corresponding part under the knife and copied in the mode level with a knife charged as reflected. Then a little noise added un et voila ... same with the other part ...
* The Ur-Bird I also freigetsellt and inserted. The shadows, etc. I again simply eingemalt level in the mode or negative multiply multiply ...


This was my reason finished assembly.
http://www.photoshop-cafe.de/werke_g...ntagejfwg5.jpg

Now I am on the "look" made ..

* As I experimented a bit ... rumgespielt and high-pass filter, USM, Selective sharpening draftsman, black / white, Lucis, LCE Ebenenmodis etc., in various forms and with various (mostly just reingemalt, but also masks and contours Luminanzmasken). I had to stop because really selective and each pixel a different approach, the sweater came the hiss out very quickly, the color & Helligkeitshalos occurred differently on etc. So I really selective each piece otherwise must address. The picture was but as I said very quickly noisy where I will make again with Matter, Blur, etc. had to counteract.
* I have around 50 levels alone for the contrast adjustment needed, but there've also been working fairly sloppy and the picture in a new level and further processed together so I very quickly edit was nothing more = (. But I did it learned.
* At the end I strongly verauschte simply gewischfingert agencies, especially the nylon jacket ...
* Then of course again with D & B set the highlights, in part, but I also simply with white lights eingemalt, on the left arm oblique light, turn left on the face or on sandwiches.
* The background, especially gerrauscht, then the I and several other soft textures overlaid.
* At the end it just Feintunig with spots (Beluchtungsfilter on gray level and Ebendmous soft light) on the face, and the edges of a vignetting added. Black and white level and to multiply with low opacity side. Farbbalnce and a light blue stitch added.



So here now the work

http://www.photoshop-cafe.de/werke_g...ewsmallri3.jpg
Click for larger view

What is important is good and right-lit photo material ....

Before and after a of the other;;

http://www.abload.de/thumb/robby_mg_1709_vnbrr2.jpg
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  #1402  
Old 11-24-2008, 05:00 PM
Peter S's Avatar
Peter S Peter S is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
From Google lets see how close did it get:
You know I'd swear that was still not English!!!!
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  #1403  
Old 11-25-2008, 12:41 AM
OceanView OceanView is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by gun4hire! View Post
Why oh why would you want to demystify something that is not a mystery.
HARD work, TIME, TALENT, FORESIGHT and Vision based on work and research.
Wouldn't our time be much wiser spent on creating our own visions.

I do understand that posts like this mean well and sharing talent is imperative to expanding creativity. And that the poster of this thread does not condone anyone to go out and copy and use this technique to underbid the artist or copy it for themselves rather than use their own vision. But things like this do hurt the industry slowly as a whole and the individual artist as well. Just because we can do something does not mean we should.
Agreed!

Stop copying and start creating your own look!

Flame suit on.
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  #1404  
Old 11-25-2008, 02:49 AM
longside1 longside1 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Hi redrum,

Thanks for taking the time to post your tutorial. Whilst i love the concept of the shot, try posting a version without using lucis as it looks to be playing havoc with teh skin tones, or if you want to use the filter, mask out the skin areas...
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  #1405  
Old 11-25-2008, 04:21 AM
igot2pman's Avatar
igot2pman igot2pman is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

To all who question this thread,

When in school, you are taught the past. Why??? Without a knowledge and understanding of the past, there is no way to improve our future. You are correct in that we should make our own look. Or better yet, just edit to our liking. But the fact is if we do not learn from the past, we are doomed to recreate it or lose it forever. How many times did we reinvent the wheel before we moved on to the wagon?

When a hair stylist is given a picture, and told I want my hair to look like that; they must recreate it. But they must also take into account what would look best for the client, adapting the pictures hair to them. We as photographers must be able to do the same, adapt old or current techniques to our current project when necessary. But how do you adapt if you do not even know the basics of where to start. This thread is the start, you as an editor must finish it. Not to copy it, but to make it right for the image at hand. Hence make it your own.

Many can learn to play Bach, but fail to make Bach from scratch. And even those that can, people would not call it such; they would call it their own name. I have learned techniques from this thread, from myself and others. And I thank you, for your help. I use them in my own editing, different combos and a lot of the same. I am not trying to copy, just learn and evolve in a since. If anything, the hunt to figure things out yielded some interesting results that have other applications.

The results below are not Dave Hill, but the effect was found along the way. I call it Angel Glow, but how did I do it? (Picture is from a wedding I took, not a composite) I created an action for it; hint, it takes 4 steps. And no, it's not a soft filter.

We all need something to look up to or strive to attain, maybe even surpass. It makes us better. I will learn and keep on learning. If you would like to learn with me, with us, then tag along. But if not, then leave us be. The choice is yours; to learn or not to learn, that is the question.

-Keven
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  #1406  
Old 11-25-2008, 06:23 AM
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snook305 snook305 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

iGot2pman... what the hell does your post have to do with this thread??
Sorry.. just had to ask
Snook
PS.Funny people in here still trying to copy this crap...:+}
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  #1407  
Old 11-25-2008, 06:26 AM
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snook305 snook305 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by gun4hire! View Post
Why oh why would you want to demystify something that is not a mystery.
HARD work, TIME, TALENT, FORESIGHT and Vision based on work and research.
Wouldn't our time be much wiser spent on creating our own visions.

I do understand that posts like this mean well and sharing talent is imperative to expanding creativity. And that the poster of this thread does not condone anyone to go out and copy and use this technique to underbid the artist or copy it for themselves rather than use their own vision. But things like this do hurt the industry slowly as a whole and the individual artist as well. Just because we can do something does not mean we should.
What the hell are you talking about???
After 98 pages of threads and you think your opinion matters...
hahahahahaha
This thread is all too funny
I like stopping by every once in a while to get a laugh...:+]
Thank you guys for the chuckle..
Snook
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  #1408  
Old 11-25-2008, 06:36 AM
longside1 longside1 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Hi Snook, have you ever particpated on the DPreview forums and if so did you use the same username?
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  #1409  
Old 11-25-2008, 06:44 AM
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snook305 snook305 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

I used to but have moved on...
Couple of year ago I use to post there.
How have you been? I really gave up on the forums and only rarely pop in now a days when I want to help some people or get a laugh out of some of the people that post...
You can lead a horse to water, But you cannot make him drink...:+}
This look is soo old it hurts and I really can only see amateur guys trying to try it out on the test images.
Most real retouchers know how to do this look with out even thinking twice...
It is old news and People where doing it before Dave Hill even new what photography was....
He got in easily shooting small bands from his home town and then got a break..
Not that he is not talented.. Just a One horse Pony...
Unfortunately for him, his look is out dated and can be achieved by just about any retouching house...
Snook
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  #1410  
Old 11-25-2008, 12:56 PM
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igot2pman igot2pman is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by snook305 View Post
iGot2pman... what the hell does your post have to do with this thread??
Sorry.. just had to ask

It has to do with learning, that is what this thread and this web site is for. People, like you, question why do you want to copy or spend time creating own looks. Or even just think it’s a waste of time. Just wanted to remind people why were here.

The effect shown was only a point, that things like this thread can grow into other things. I understand that it’s not the best look... but it is different. To make it better, it could be used in combo with other techniques to become an amazing look.

Snook, if it’s all too easy then reconstruct my effect; make it glow. I left the original so people could try. It's simple, so it should not take long...

Good luck,
-Keven

Last edited by igot2pman; 11-25-2008 at 01:02 PM.
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