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The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

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  #1721  
Old 04-26-2009, 04:23 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

The quality of Hills eq is not what makes his pictures good. I have lighting as good as his and can't come close to what he does. The quality of his cameras and lenses are moot at web sizes.

That said, he does shoot for maximum texture and detail. This means cross lighting, strong contrast and adequate depth of field (smaller apertures).

People who don't have expensive lighting can still work with sunlight, speedlights, on-camera flash and reflectors (silver boards available at art supply stores, or cover a piece of foam core with tin foil).

The point being, if you want to shoot like Hill don't wait for new equipment, get busy practicing with what you've got.

A couple of his shots look like he used lucisart, highpass, or something similar, but most just look like D&B and painting with light.

The moral of the story is to just practice, practice practice and get good with what you've got. When you can afford better equipment your pictures may improve marginally, but you'll probably be disappointed by how little - and perhaps only at the largest sizes.

BTW, I have a D-80 and it's more than good enough for what DH does at web sizes. Don't believe me? Can anyone discern which of his images are shot with the Canon vs the Hassleblad? The qualitative difference is probably greater between those two than between his Canon and the D-80, and at the amateur level those differences are moot.

I'd take a good photographer with bad eq over a bad photographer with good eq every time. And a D-80 is not bad eq!
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  #1722  
Old 04-26-2009, 04:34 PM
Tareq Tareq is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

And that is why we are saying what we can do with pr equip. and non-pro skill, i know that skill or talent is important, but the problem even we can't practice here to improve our talent or skill, i shoot my daughters and adopted son almost many times, by my 30D and 5D and 1DsII and 1DsIII and Hasselblad, so i have thousands of their shots since 2007 until now and i can't see that i really have something art or amazing for DH stuff look or style, so to me i should try hard where and when and how i can do stuff like DH then i will see where i am missing, keep practicing is a good point but for how long? i think if i keep practicing for even 10 years without thinking about something i really look for and how and composition and style and light then i will never go anywhere, not sure how long did DH took to reach that level, he is 29 or 30 now i think and i am 29 now, i am sure even after 5 years of practice i will never reach his level, so is there something else rather than skill and equipment?
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  #1723  
Old 04-26-2009, 04:41 PM
Mtmm Mtmm is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypisek View Post
Mtmm I see 3 options:

1. Skills + camera = good photos
2. No skills + any camera = nothing

and

3. Skills + DX camera(D80) = what?

I still try to ask you for something, I suppose D80 in your hands + your skills = good photo. Can you try make one photo for me to show me that D80 camera is not bad? Please, make only ONE photos and use your top secret post processing method ok?
I know you are bussy man but maybe you can find few minutes to prepare one photo in your style? Thank you
If you dont have skills or equipment, don´t try to achieve a look that requires both of those. Like snook said, here is so awful photos that are just snaps with horrible photoshop work.

If I have only 1 flash and a camera, I´m going with those, I´m not trying to overkill an image in a photoshop with some shitty technique.

All of you, your photoshop is too visible. Try to retouch so that it does not scream from a mile away "look, I have a photoshop and I know how to use shadow/highlight".

I can do cool photos with Nikon d80, because I dont rape images with photoshop, but without lights you cannot do certain things. Then why even bother when result will be shit if trying to compensate with PS? And why 1ds over d80. 1ds is a camera, not a toy. It´s build is solid hard if compared to any cheaper camera. It´s shutter lasts longer etc.
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  #1724  
Old 04-26-2009, 04:42 PM
Tareq Tareq is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypisek View Post
Mtmm I see 3 options:

1. Skills + camera = good photos
2. No skills + any camera = nothing

and

3. Skills + DX camera(D80) = what?

I still try to ask you for something, I suppose D80 in your hands + your skills = good photo. Can you try make one photo for me to show me that D80 camera is not bad? Please, make only ONE photos and use your top secret post processing method ok?
I know you are bussy man but maybe you can find few minutes to prepare one photo in your style? Thank you

This is my try with D80
http://cypisek666.deviantart.com/art/Car-02-120521115
To be honest, the most important skill is photoshop skill, i see that someone who is talented or have skill in photoshop can do a lot than someone who is talented or skilled in photography and nothing in photoshop, in fact many pros using retouchers, or even many pros photos are not that much different high quality than others without some retouching, so i can say if i have photos with my entry-level and with top pro bodies then photoshop can do some to them, i may show a great shot by my 350D with amazing photoshop manipulation and Hasselblad great shot untouched original and many will get WOW with that 350D, even that Hasselblad shots are great and higher resolution but that 350D shots edited and manipulated to look as they are took by pro and high quality or high end camera.

I know many will have some or opposite or different opinions but the only or most photos that blown away my mind or made me to say WOW are those photos manipulated, i saw many photos by all cameras with great color and lighting and composition, i never say WOW and even i didn't see it that big WOW, but when played or PP then i will be speechless, Dave Hill skill is Photoshop 70% and lighting 25%, the rest can be the camera or whatever, i challenge Dave Hill [if he can see this thread] to post original photos and then we can talk.
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  #1725  
Old 04-26-2009, 04:46 PM
Flashtones Flashtones is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tareq View Post
i am sure even after 5 years of practice i will never reach his level, so is there something else rather than skill and equipment?

Nothing beats skill, but the way to speed up your skill development is education. Did you say you're in NY? Check out the School of Visual Arts for courses, or google "photoshop workshops NY" etc. Or try to assist professional photographers who's style you like. And of course, web tutorials.

None of this guarantees you'll learn to shoot and post process exactly like DH, but it will increase your skills and help you find YOUR style faster.

Your eq sounds great, just keep experimenting.
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  #1726  
Old 04-26-2009, 05:13 PM
Tareq Tareq is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashtones View Post
Nothing beats skill, but the way to speed up your skill development is education. Did you say you're in NY? Check out the School of Visual Arts for courses, or google "photoshop workshops NY" etc. Or try to assist professional photographers who's style you like. And of course, web tutorials.

None of this guarantees you'll learn to shoot and post process exactly like DH, but it will increase your skills and help you find YOUR style faster.

Your eq sounds great, just keep experimenting.
No, i am not in NY, but i will visit NY as my vacation, i am a landscape photographer, but as long i will stay with a friend there in NYC and i will not go out around then i will not do much landscapes, so then i should focus on people/street/fashion or portraits/urban,.....

I checked many websites and difficult to find workshops there, as i may not find one of what i want or not the time i will be there, also the prices of most are unbelievable as i need to take a course in those schools or institute which is not possible for me, so i will keep trying, and the problem those professional photographers can't be reached mostly and because i am a foreigner then i don't think i can be assist any professional photographer there, sure there are thousands of assistants there and within 3-3 weeks i can't get a chance to find a proper workshop or work with a pro photographer even there are full pros.

Yes, i will always keep practicing, but i know my situations can't help me to increase my skill, it is going very slow so i may take 10 years or longer instead of 4 or 5 to be as good, and all my best and winner shots are from my travels, so it is clear to me that my country and my situations here can't help me to get better but also i can't travel more and i can't live in another country, USA is full of award-winning photographers over the world, so if i really into it and i live there at least for 2 years then i will be one or the best photographer in my country here.
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  #1727  
Old 04-26-2009, 09:34 PM
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skydog skydog is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Mtmm,
What lighting equipment are you using?
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  #1728  
Old 04-27-2009, 02:28 AM
Czarusek Czarusek is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Today's contemporary photography is such that everything has an impact on the final results.
Camera 12bit and 14 bit camera matrix is colossal difference, not only in quantity but also in the roar of colors, and therefore within the scope of tonal colors.Anyone who says otherwise is an ordinary imbecile and not worth to continue further discussions with him.

About light: the lamp is used not only for modeling shadows on the object but also serves as a medium between the object and the matrix which is so much to say, good light and well distributed, the success in the field of photography. The result is a pure DH, and cosmetics as very little advertising, because the hardware and intellectual barrier for less advanced, is an excellent firewall for all kinds of amateurs.

Cypisek: Finding the effect of DH has developed his own style on the style to which the D80 once wrote tutorial, style, which sometimes in addition to refining the equipment and can provide credit to him ..
Talent: has the greatest impact on the final good photographer will make a good picture even with a cell phone but never has an effect DH:

sum:
talent + good camera + light = good suces
lack only one of the only elements = failure

Last edited by Czarusek; 04-27-2009 at 02:37 AM.
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  #1729  
Old 04-27-2009, 02:32 AM
Mtmm Mtmm is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydog View Post
Mtmm,
What lighting equipment are you using?
Elichrom rangers.
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  #1730  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:50 AM
Tareq Tareq is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarusek View Post
Today's contemporary photography is such that everything has an impact on the final results.
Camera 12bit and 14 bit camera matrix is colossal difference, not only in quantity but also in the roar of colors, and therefore within the scope of tonal colors.Anyone who says otherwise is an ordinary imbecile and not worth to continue further discussions with him.

About light: the lamp is used not only for modeling shadows on the object but also serves as a medium between the object and the matrix which is so much to say, good light and well distributed, the success in the field of photography. The result is a pure DH, and cosmetics as very little advertising, because the hardware and intellectual barrier for less advanced, is an excellent firewall for all kinds of amateurs.

Cypisek: Finding the effect of DH has developed his own style on the style to which the D80 once wrote tutorial, style, which sometimes in addition to refining the equipment and can provide credit to him ..
Talent: has the greatest impact on the final good photographer will make a good picture even with a cell phone but never has an effect DH:

sum:
talent + good camera + light = good suces
lack only one of the only elements = failure
100%

It is like a construction, many will say that the foundation is the most important, but others will say columns are most important, to me, all those elements are important, so in Photography there are 3 elements:

1- Person[Photographer] with his skill or talent in taking photos or playing with photos after the shoot.
2- Camera and accessories if so [like lenses if using SLR/DSLRs].
3- Light [without light the photos is almost black nothing there or worthless without good light or control and amount and form of light].

So all these 3 elements compliment each other, lack one of them will not give 100% perfect or success, but missing one of the elements doesn't mean the end of world, so to me, i am very much to grow with the 3 elements, i have good lights even not the best, and have great collection of gear, and now i am trying to growing my skill, so then i will see what i am missing.
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