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The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

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  #2071  
Old 02-14-2010, 05:21 PM
Aether Aether is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Richard, let me add my own pestering to those wanting to see your workflow! That would be invaluable. Personally, I still love this kind of work (Greenberg, Dragan, Hill, Fiscus, Joey L, etc.), even if I don't end up using the look when/if I go pro for real, the tricks and techniques behind it seem so important to grasp. Regardless, I love learning all sorts of new techniques, so thanks to everyone whose contributed to this thread!

I gave this look a quick try, trying to use it in a more subtle way, to see if I could give a regular portrait a bit of boost without going full boar with it. Obviously I fell short, but I'd love to hear how I could improve on it.
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  #2072  
Old 02-14-2010, 06:05 PM
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TreesOfMyTime TreesOfMyTime is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

This is an important point that many of the Post Process haters miss. I see signs of this and other methods used lightly and no one notices! But improvement is there!

The "overdone" is good too. Hey folks, it is all about what a person likes and that is their entitlement! Their ART! Give them that right!
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  #2073  
Old 02-18-2010, 06:46 AM
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gamedonechanged gamedonechanged is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

I'm just getting interested in this technique. Can someone offer any advice as to some good resources? Should I just read through this entire thread?

Also I am not a photographer but it looks like lighting when shooting is important here. Can I still pick up the techniques to form a general workflow in this thread?

Last edited by gamedonechanged; 02-18-2010 at 06:54 AM.
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  #2074  
Old 02-18-2010, 06:54 AM
pellepiano pellepiano is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Well, this thread is one of the best resources.
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  #2075  
Old 02-19-2010, 04:21 PM
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Here's my first try with 5-point lighting and sort of the illustrative look on a few photos of myself. I set the light and my friend took the pictures with my camera:
http://www.markusp.se/_X5O1124_medium.jpg
http://www.markusp.se/_X5O1138_medium.jpg

If you like I can write something about the workflow from shooting in the studio to finished retouch. Like I said, this was my first try and I learned that there are a lot of things that are kind of equally important to get good results.

/Markus
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  #2076  
Old 02-20-2010, 06:55 AM
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gamedonechanged gamedonechanged is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Did anyone try that method Robert Randall laid out on MM? I'm guessing this is the Glee hallway pic but some things I am not too sure of like when he says make a highlight mask of shadow mask ect...
Now, how he does it…

First of all, forget all about any dumb ass High Pass techniques you’ve been thinking of, because from what I can see, he doesn’t use them. Nor does he use a huge amount of Unsharp Mask. He uses local contrast controls through selections and masks.

For instance, look at the back pack on the other guy camera a right.* Normally that item would be blocked up and lacking detail.* Make a lasso selection around the back pack and ask for a layer curve. Brighten to taste. Next go to the same guys pants and do the same thing over for the pants. Now go to the sweater. Now go to the next guy and do the same thing to his little blue bag, then his sweater. Cross the hall to the guy and his leather jacket. Curve that, then his pants and then his hair.* Do this local selection curve technique to anything you feel like, when finished pumping up the local contrast, go get something to drink. Come back and judge whether you’ve gone too far or not far enough, and then fix stuff to taste.

Next, make a Highlight mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/HL%20mask%201.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Bring highlight up slightly.

Next, make a Highlight Mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/HL%20mask%202.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Bring highlight up slightly more. Notice how the picture starts to take on a sense of depth and life that you’re not familiar with. Fun, huh?

Next, make a Shadow mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/shadow%20mask%201.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Bring shadow down just a little bit, don’t get carried away here, it isn’t the right time for it.


Next, make a Shadow mask like this, or darker yet…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/shadow%20mask%202.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Now play with killing any detail you might have in this local select area of the shadow. This move sets up the down side of the picture just like the HL mask sets up the upside. By now you should be experiencing a sense of depth that will keep you off the porn sites for at least an hour. We’re not done yet!

Next make a difference mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/diff%20mask%201.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Now you can play with adding or detracting density from the midtone area to help create the illusion of more density. Usually this is a darkening move, but it can go the other way too.

Now ask for an empty layer and change its mode to softlight. Note that you can also use hard light or overlay if you prefer. Wherever you see a highlight that you want to embellish, start painting white with a brush, wrinkles, teeth, cheeks, lips, what ever you like, paint until you’re eyes bleed.* My way of doing this is to then blur the painted layer and add a Highlight Mask from the selection I gave you above. This is why my pictures don’t look like Jill Greenberg’s or Dave Hill’s. I use control over my painting emotional out bursts. Paint those arm and leg highlights too, don’t miss a thing!

Now do the same think with black paint on another softlight layer. Use a mask, don’t use a mask, it’s completely up to you.

If you still think there is room to screw the pooch a little harder, create a compound layer of all you have done and de-saturate it. Change the mode to soft or hard light and watch your contrast go through the roof. Still not enough? Make another compound copy and de-saturate it. Change the mode and ask for a HP filter. Give it a number of between 2 and 250 and watch that picture go thermo nuclear on you. Go to the closest mirror you can find and say the words “Fuck Dave Hill, you’re the man!”.

Any rational person at this point will note there are a thousand ways to skin a digital cat. What I’ve laid out is the basis for how young Mr. Hill achieves his look. I haven’t given you every nuance, because that could take days, and I may have missed a small point or two. But you should have learned at least one major point; there is no shortcut filter available that will do this. Also, you aren’t Dave Hill and even armed with this info, your pictures won’t look like his. But hopefully they will look like yours.

Okay, I’m ready for every malcontent know nothing wanna be that feels a need to challenge me on my DH dissection. Let me say in advance… fuck you, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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  #2077  
Old 02-20-2010, 07:44 AM
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TreesOfMyTime TreesOfMyTime is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Links do not seem to work!
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  #2078  
Old 02-20-2010, 07:46 AM
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gamedonechanged gamedonechanged is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Yeah I noticed. I have emailed Robert asking if he still has them. That seems to be it though or at least over on MM the general feeling is he nailed it. I remember seeing that thread when the pictures were active and was sure i saved the page but can't find it now.
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  #2079  
Old 02-20-2010, 02:09 PM
Aether Aether is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Damn, a lot of that explanation seems really useful, but I'm not sure what he means specifically by highlight mask, shadow mask, or difference mask. Anyone more schooled than me know?
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  #2080  
Old 02-20-2010, 03:07 PM
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gamedonechanged gamedonechanged is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

I think he means luminance masks. I know how to do a basic one but not in the manner he is saying. The screenshots probably would have helped. It was quite an old thread there tbh but im surprised that after 72 pages no one saw it.

To me it sounds like he is saying select different parts of the people and make selective contrast boosts using curves adjustment layers. But oddly he never says select the face ect... Not sure if this is just specific to this example or generally. Then it sounds like a luminance mask is made and another similar one after but that's where it get's wierd as I don't have the screenshots.

Last edited by gamedonechanged; 02-20-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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