The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

[crazyfly1]

Originally Posted by Mtmm

Do you believe that Dave just sets up over 6 flashes just to show off?

Why yes, yes I do. In fact let me quote Dave for you
"That big octobox is just for show."

So yes I think he does it sometimes (and he doesn't always) just to impress the noobs.
It's showing you a flower with one hand while he pulls a quarter from behind your ear with the other.
Don't get me wrong I have already clearly seen that some folks want this to be all mysterious and remain unanswered.

I don't know. It could be that I'm totally off base and all you need mtmm is to wacom your raw with ring flash and dodge and burn.

Or, it could be that as with so many things photoshop there are several ways to get almost identical effects.

[zogdart]

Mtmm is right, You need good lighting to get the good result.

No light...No image... you can wacom all you want! still no image.

If it would be as simple as shooting with a ring flash, and retouch with a wacom, a lot of people would achieve it.

You need a good understanding of light. the big octo is not just for show. I know lighting. I've been around...Did a lot of assisting with some of the big boys in London and N.Y.

Dave say's a lot of thing to trow us off...

[Mtmm]

Originally Posted by crazyfly1

Don't get me wrong I have already clearly seen that some folks want this to be all mysterious and remain unanswered.

And you have now discovered that mystery? Please, dont hold it down, shot us how to replicate Dave Hill´s style if it is so simple. There is hundres of users trying to replicate that style, nobody has done it. So please, enter the stage. You fail!

And for the record, I´m not trying to copy Dave, but I have learned a lot from his videos.

http://www.bodynet.fi/kuvat/danielhill.jpg

Guy in that photo is named Daniel Hill, just a coincidence.

[snook305]

Cannot believe the boneheads are still it is mainly lighting.. BS
His lighting is very basic lighting.. or at best average.
His "Look" is clearly achieved in POST! PERIOD!
Now get over it...:+}
Snook

[Mtmm]

Yes its done as I was saying before. First lights, then photoshop. But try to get this in to your head. You need a good lighting to start with. After that nobody knows what Dave does in photoshop/illustrator/after effects/3d max........

This is like explaining banana to monkey.

After all this some idiot is still saying, "you just need photoshop, blaa blaa...."

[zogdart]

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CaptainHook]

For anyone who thinks the way he lights is NOT integral to his look, watch his behind
the scenes vid with Chris Brown. He's tethered to the mac and the shots come up
as he takes them. The "look" is at least 80% there. No surprise that the raw files
look closer to his look than the many "post" attempts here.

[Mtmm]

This is a raw-file with 4 flashes, Elinchrom Rangers. 2 kickers, left and right. Key light softbox upper right, fill light ring flash front. Left kicker and ringflash at half power versus right side.

Post processing with d/b will produce more rendered like photo. After that I don´t have a glue what Dave uses. But I´m sure that d/b is done heavily in Dave´s photos for entire photo. When you go piece by piece the whole photo through with d/b you can generate more rendered look.

http://www.bodynet.fi/kuvat/raw.jpg

[crazyfly1]

Mtmm, you might consider posting that picture somewhere in a larger size and in raw tiff or psd.

This is my try at it, I know, I know, not even close. Maybe if I'd spent more than 3 minutes on it but I have to go to the store. Oh well, I tried.
Thanx for the image.

[Red Triangle]

That looks great!

Originally Posted by Mtmm

http://www.bodynet.fi/kuvat/danielhill.jpg

Guy in that photo is named Daniel Hill, just a coincidence.

[crazyfly1]

Another with more vignetting.
The more I do this the more I feel I am missing something that dave does when he adds the vignettes. Somehow he is getting rings of light intermixed with the rings of dark. Maybe a blend mode on the vignette layer?

[Mtmm]

Originally Posted by crazyfly1

Mtmm, you might consider posting that picture somewhere in a larger size and in raw tiff or psd.

This is my try at it, I know, I know, not even close. Maybe if I'd spent more than 3 minutes on it but I have to go to the store. Oh well, I tried.
Thanx for the image.

As you see, you are generating terrible halos, look at the shoulders.

Here is retouched with only d/b and some bleach bypass.

http://www.bodynet.fi/kuvat/raw2.jpg

[superkoax]

mtmm: youre on to something here in your last post! I would say skin texture??? maybe the picture is too small to have a good outcome for us poor dave hill fans Post bigger picture, pretty please????


Gerry

[crazyfly1]

Mtmm, two possible responses to that. One is "I don't have the luxury of working on an origional raw, post the larger image please."
The other is "look at this picture, halos? hmmmm.?

[Mtmm]

That is no halo, its jpg artifacts. And as you see on the shirt and on his face, that is some serious dodge and burning there.

And if I take the retouching further, I can create more highlites and shadows with first softing the skin with linear light layer with gaussian and high pass keeping the detail in the skin. Then using first white with "select color range" and then again d/b heavily.

This is just an overdone demo with extracted photo.

And this is not even close Dave Hill, but with a good lighting you can do some heavy retouch without damaging the photo with halos and other shit. I still believe, that Dave is going through the whole photo with d/b and then he does his magic.

Key point still is a good lighting with enough highlites and shadow detail.

http://www.bodynet.fi/kuvat/raw3.jpg

[crazyfly1]

Don't want to share the origional??

[Mtmm]

Nope. There is some good raw files on other threads. Try to look some photos where is already good highlites to work with. If you try to do those highlites from the scratch, it does not work so well. And of course if you are working with a file that is going to be on any printable media, you got to control magenta with an adjustment layer (curves) or with other method. You can go by numbers working in cmyk space. Keep yellow over magenta.

[JD Spears]

deja vu! Anybody around 20 years ago remember this same conversation. Then it was Arron Jones.

[Ich.Mario]

very good. could you please explain a little more precicely what you've done. your english is a little bit too crumpled for me

Originally Posted by Mtmm

That is no halo, its jpg artifacts. And as you see on the shirt and on his face, that is some serious dodge and burning there.

And if I take the retouching further, I can create more highlites and shadows with first softing the skin with linear light layer with gaussian and high pass keeping the detail in the skin. Then using first white with "select color range" and then again d/b heavily.

This is just an overdone demo with extracted photo.

And this is not even close Dave Hill, but with a good lighting you can do some heavy retouch without damaging the photo with halos and other shit. I still believe, that Dave is going through the whole photo with d/b and then he does his magic.

Key point still is a good lighting with enough highlites and shadow detail.

http://www.bodynet.fi/kuvat/raw3.jpg

[Mtmm]

Originally Posted by Ich.Mario

very good. could you please explain a little more precicely what you've done. your english is a little bit too crumpled for me

Crumpled or not, my basic point is to use enough good lighting. I just wanted to explain how important lighting is when trying to emulate Dave Hill. It definitely is not only photoshop as so many is thinking. And always, retouch your photos in full resolution. In this thread I see only few good photos, rest of the photos are that same old shit trying to do it all in photoshop generating terrible halos.

[Ich.Mario]

lighting, d&b

[Mtmm]

Originally Posted by Ich.Mario

lighting, d&b

You got to understand light to use d&b in a right way. In your photo there is a light source on the right side, there should not be shadow on the right side of models face. When you generate highlites and shadows, you can manipulate those with d&b just increasing lighter areas. Dont create new shadows, just manipulate existing ones. But mainly your photo is closer than 90% of this thread photos.

And these are only my opinions, not absolute facts.

[Ich.Mario]

yes, you're right. this shadow on the face is wrong. i tried desperately to make a shadow on the side, and thats the effect: it looks wrong and not good.

[superkoax]

Originally Posted by JD Spears

deja vu! Anybody around 20 years ago remember this same conversation. Then it was Arron Jones.

oh? any good guides on where to find pictures from him?

thanks...

[crazyfly1]

Originally Posted by superkoax

oh? any good guides on where to find pictures from him?

thanks...

NOOoooooOOooooooo!!
Nobody tell!

[JD Spears]

Actually, It's Aaron Jones. My bad.
http://www.repertoireart.com/news_views/photo_legends/jones.htm[/url]
His style may look like a lot off people in the ninetys but he was the first.
Sorry Crazyfly

[JD Spears]

http://www.repertoireart.com/news_vi..._legends/jones

[crazyfly1]

Originally Posted by JD Spears

Actually, It's Aaron Jones. My bad.
http://www.repertoireart.com/news_views/photo_legends/jones.htm[/url]
His style may look like a lot off people in the ninetys but he was the first.
Sorry Crazyfly

No problem, totally kidding, welcome relief from...
sorry, lost my train of thought, started thinking about pie.

Anyway, your right he was an innovator. He also had the benefit of being a pretty skilled photographer.

[obosila]

Here`s another try. Larger version on my site.

[snook305]

Obosila... Looks pretty nice.
Why don't you list your steps and or maybe post a psd?
Thanks
Snook