The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

[Calvinhollywood]

I used 2 flashes in photography to get every detail.
The most important thing is the photography.
Rest i did with dodge and burn and unsharp mask

lg Calvin

[funkyboy4]

My try


http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...rtcopycopy.jpg

[Ich.Mario]

i like the style very much. what did you do, funkyboy?

[funkyboy4]

Eyes
I burned the pupils to make them darker and then i went round the iris wih dodge making them lighter.

Background
For the background i used some channels to make a mask then inverted it, using a gradient fill to make the red darker. I also lowered the opacity to blend it in but you can choose which background you want. Heres a link to the channel masking if it helps, give it time to load it takes ages its very tempromental- http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov

Skin
The skin is quite easy once you get the hang of it read this - http://www.photoshoptutorials.ws/pho...ooth-skin.html

Its a big read but its worth it in the end, i also lowered the saturation to make the skin slightly desaturated

Teeth
All i did for the teeth was cut it from another tooth and placed it in the gaps lowering the opacity and making a new layer painting the teeth white and putting the layer in soft light and lowering the opacity

Hair
I used hue and saturation and went into the yellow channel and lowering the saturation, using the clone tool i alo got rid of stray hairs

Lips
I dodged the lip highlights and made a new layer painted the lips pink put the layer in soft light and lowered the opacity

Hope this all helps if you want to know anything else just message me

[edgework]

Variations of this smoothing technique are all over the place. I'm not fond of the version you referenced, for a number of reasons. However the most important is that the best decription of how it works is right here in the RetouchPro tutorials section. Two articles byRo go into far greater depth, offer a much more useful set of parameters and provide a workflow flexible enough to fit any image, accomplish the purpose and minimize evidence that it was used at all. Check out These links:

http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=147

http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=149

A shortcut version, by the same author, known around here as the Degrunge Technique has been mentioned and described recently on some of the beauty retouching threads that are still current. I personally prefer the long version, as it is customizable to a far greater extent. Read 'em all. It's worth it.

[EdwinM]

reading from this thread and other sites...i try to emulate dave hill's effect on both fashion and other type of photography.

Here is my take...

this photo was taken using a off cam external flash, used an ultra wide lens. My friend wanted a different portrait...

used the tips given in this thread...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1412/...d0fef34d_o.jpg


this one on a pool of fishes...


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1237/...dc3340b8_o.jpg


One thing i notice is that it does not apply to every image, an image with good quality light and sharpness is needed.

[SteveB2005]

Dave Hill has a photo illustration style similar to Jill Greenberg, known as "The Manipulator." They have a formula that works. You mean that's not the original image that comes directly out of the camera? no, just kiddin', but, to me some of the images almost look like slick comic book line drawings that are colored in, same technique. Of course the image quality, lighting and composition are first rate.

steve

I have often wondered myself how they are achieving these techniques in PS

[cli]

in the photo side:

for sure there's an underexposure of the ambient light maybe 1 entire stop or more and a wel lit subject by the use of flash for the base shot do you agree with me??
he close a lot the may be f16, f22

[superkoax]

steveB: Jill Greenbergs pictures are often retouched by Amy Dresser...so....her pictures isn't really hers since everyone loves the effect of the pictures...


gerry

[KR1156]

Originally Posted by superkoax

steveB: Jill Greenbergs pictures are often retouched by Amy Dresser...so....her pictures isn't really hers since everyone loves the effect of the pictures...


gerry

Jill has a lot more control over her retouching than you think.

[SteveB2005]

Originally Posted by superkoax

steveB: Jill Greenbergs pictures are often retouched by Amy Dresser...so....her pictures isn't really hers since everyone loves the effect of the pictures...


gerry

I'm sure that is very possible about Amy Dresser working on Jill's work. I first heard about Greenberg when I read and saw some of her images featured in an article in a digital photography magazine. I will review that article and for anyone interested in learning more about Greenberg's work, it appeared in Digital PhotoPro, Sep/Oct 2005 p 60-70. Doesn't seem to be any mention of Amy Dresser at that time, but now in 2007, who knows what she may be doing and hiring to do her post work. I do remember it said Jill still worked a lot with film cameras and then did the retouching herself with masking, D&B. Also in other interviews with Jill, she is asked questions about her post work and stylistic look

Whatever and who ever does the post work, it is quite interesting and now I may have to jump in and experiment with some of these techniques many of you have tried out

steve

[superkoax]

KR: You are right in the control, but I feel that the retouching amy does on Jills picture are so good that the picture itself get's more in the background...Hard to explain in words, but when I see jill greeneberg pictures I see the effect more than the picture itself...


gerry

[KR1156]

amys not her only retoucher, and she enhances that effect herself.

[superkoax]

KR: r u sure? I've heard other things...everytime Jill greenberg is mentioned amy dresser is also mentioned, so I have drwan my own conclusion really...that she has retouched most of her work...but I haven't been 100% sure...are you?

Cheers for answering

Gerry

[KR1156]

having worked on some stuff, i'm pretty sure.

she shoots a ton of stuff, so it is spread out.

[KR1156]

that was a cool movie though, almost didn't make it through the 1st halfhour.....once i see freaks, and mutants and all kinds of nonsense i usually skip town!

[SteveB2005]

Originally Posted by superkoax

KR: You are right in the control, but I feel that the retouching amy does on Jills picture are so good that the picture itself get's more in the background...Hard to explain in words, but when I see jill greeneberg pictures I see the effect more than the picture itself...


gerry

Superkoax, here is a link about Jill Greenberg's workflow and her photography and her retouching

http://www.digitalphotopro.com/art/t...greenberg.html

See what you think

steve

[PostProcessor]

Hey =]
I think CMS is definatly correct =] and im no expert but from what i can see im pretty sure in one of his photos you could see the reflection of a Ring Flash in the guys glasses, this already makes the photo jump out and give a cool effect. Then in photoshop he would probably do alot of Painting with Light technique =] sort of like Jill Greenberg, she also uses Ring Flash. So yeh like CMS said he takes multiple shots and combines them to get an overall sharp image.

hope this helped a bit?

-Angelo

[Sharene]

Although I am just a model, I do alot of Photoshop editing too see all of what I can create. I have tried my hands at the Dave Hill effect and would love to hear what you guys thing. This is an image (of myself) where I am dressed like a guy. Basically what I did with the image was this: The image was on an all white background, I cut myself out and placed me on this street/graffiti background. I adjusted the lighting a bit on myself and on the background and continued on with the dave hill effect. :-)

Sharene P
www.freewebs.com/sharenep

[SteveB2005]

Originally Posted by PostProcessor

Hey =]
I think CMS is definatly correct =] and im no expert but from what i can see im pretty sure in one of his photos you could see the reflection of a Ring Flash in the guys glasses, this already makes the photo jump out and give a cool effect. Then in photoshop he would probably do alot of Painting with Light technique =] sort of like Jill Greenberg, she also uses Ring Flash. So yeh like CMS said he takes multiple shots and combines them to get an overall sharp image.

hope this helped a bit?

-Angelo

A photography student I know told me that Jill Greenberg was scheduled to give a talk and when Q&A was opened up from the students to Jill about her PS retouching and workflow, she was very vague about how she accomplishes her look. In interviews, she will just say, "I just use a lot of masking, painting and dodge and burn." Man, that answer really helps doesn't it?

But then again they still keep the top secret recipe for Coca-Cola locked up in a vault as well as McDada's "Secret Sauce." steve

[pellepiano]

Why must it be a secret recipe that everyone should be able to do if they just knew the ingredients?

I believe that dodge and burn requires an artist touch as normal painting would. Many of the good retocuhers has a artistic backgrounds ( greenberg, dresser, jeffery scrott, michael rosen etc ).

I have big troubles with the art of Doge and Burn =) I find it difficult knowing beforehand exactly where add or subtract to get a certain effect.

Not having a real style yet this is the look I am at now, using a lot of lights when shooting.

http://www.pellepiano.com/studiobild/images/imagef6.jpg

[SteveB2005]

Originally Posted by pellepiano

Why must it be a secret recipe that everyone should be able to do if they just knew the ingredients?

I believe that dodge and burn requires an artist touch as normal painting would. Many of the good retocuhers has a artistic backgrounds ( greenberg, dresser, jeffery scrott, michael rosen etc ).

I have big troubles with the art of Doge and Burn =) I find it difficult knowing beforehand exactly where add or subtract to get a certain effect.

Not having a real style yet this is the look I am at now, using a lot of lights when shooting.

http://www.pellepiano.com/studiobild/images/imagef6.jpg

I've dabbled trying to learn and understand the D&B technique, but I could never really catch on how to master it. If there was a DVD available showing step by step demo on this style, maybe I could see how it's done in real time. I think there are some links here somewhere on the D&B tutorial and it is a good thing to know about

Unfortunately there is a bit of secrecy in the trade, but there are also a ton of resources available out there to pick up a lot of tricks and techniques. I still think Katrin's books are some of the best material to get started in pro retouching. Any secrecy is what to sift through to get on the right path in the least amount of time, haha, just kiddin' though.

BTW, this forum is a bit of a "secret" from the general community and even I found it by sure accident, but I'm glad I did, because it's like an online school and free scholarships access. steve

[walterbulyga]

thats why we use lighting to reduce or increase dynamic range

[brafla6]

my attempt at dave hill

[superkoax]

brafla6: it looks like you have taken my retouch and altered it...it looks blown out in the forehead area...

gerry

[brafla6]

I thought I had taken the "original" i apologize!

[superkoax]

here is a link to a very close to Dave hill by our very own rp.com member...

http://www.retouchpro.com/gallery/sh...php?photo=4813


Gerry

[Calvinhollywood]

Nice Picture.... and he lives 10 min away from me*g*

lg Calvin

[ge0rge]

Here is a photographer who is right up there with the dave hill look: Click portfolio and then next till you get to pic #9.

http://www.taylorchristianjones.com/

[SteveB2005]

Originally Posted by ge0rge

Here is a photographer who is right up there with the dave hill look: Click portfolio and then next till you get to pic #9.

http://www.taylorchristianjones.com/

On thing I noticed about some of the work on this site was many of the subjects are posed dead center which doesn't use the rule of thirds principal. If that is the guy's style and look then that's the way it is, but I like to see more variation of composition. Some of the images are ok, as far as subject placement

Now I am seeing more and more references to the Dave Hill and Jill Greenburg look, but that style has been copied so many times, it is loosing its uniqueness, for me anyway. I would rather see a new direction of originality in photographer's work. Now they have actions you can buy to just push a button and get the "Jill Greenburg instant look."

See, it's like being an original songwriter. You play your song for someone and they say, "oh, that's sound almost like the Beatle's "Dear Prudence" or something similar or hey, sounds just like Madonna."

It's ok to be an imitator in the beginning, but after many experiments and hard work to establish a unique look, it would be good to be an innovator as well

These concepts and styles are interesting as long as 10,000 new shooters don't keep copying it. JMHO