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The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

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  #581  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:04 PM
mrbeagle mrbeagle is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

crazyfly I think you're on to something, I'd love to see the write up you make!
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  #582  
Old 05-03-2008, 11:14 PM
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crazyfly1 crazyfly1 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Thank you, thank you, Mrbeagle! You are a gentleman.
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  #583  
Old 05-04-2008, 08:02 AM
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TreesOfMyTime TreesOfMyTime is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by plugsnpixels View Post
skydog, no one else will be posting examples created with LucisArt Pro until the beta or a trial version is released later this summer. I'm using what I'm told is the "core" of the upcoming version, for early testing (I do this occasionally; I have beta tested for Apple, Corel, ACD, Ambrosia, etc.). I understand the final version will have a different interface, at the very least, thus I haven't posted screenshots of it as it currently stands.

There won't be shocking differences between what Lucis Pro (the current high-end version of the Lucis technology) can do and the upcoming LucisArt Pro. The approach is similar, but the software has been updated to be compatible with hardware and OS advances of the past four years. And both Lucis Pro and LucisArt Pro are much more flexible than LucisArt (the current low-end plug-in version). Once you are freed from the presets and little buttons which interrupt the smooth transition of the effects, you will have much more fun.

I intend to post a challenge here at RetouchPRO later this summer where we pit our skills against LucisArt Pro, trying to determine whether it is unique or if it can be matched by native Photoshop effects and/or cheaper plug-ins. Should be interesting!
The big question for me is, aside from running natively (no Rosetta) under the Intel based MAC, is do you think the value for the high price will be there in the shipped product? As a beta tester, do you see the issues that arise dealt with properly?

Thanks.
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  #584  
Old 05-05-2008, 12:15 PM
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plugsnpixels plugsnpixels is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

I don't expect any surprises in the final version due later this summer. By that I mean, Lucis technology is stable (according to the developer, no bugs have been found in the current versions over the past several years) and the effects are familiar.

In playing with the pre-release core (which is not even a beta yet), I haven't come across any unexpected behavior–everything works as it should, and I have been happily cranking out treated images (running the Windows version on a Mac via Parallels, no less!). I offered the developer some user-interface related suggestions to make the experience even smoother (which are being considered), but haven't come across any bugs.

As for the value, there's no reason it should go down! I'm not sure what you mean by that. Everything about the Lucis experience will be improved in the LucisArt Pro version.
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  #585  
Old 05-05-2008, 02:02 PM
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TreesOfMyTime TreesOfMyTime is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Quote:
Originally Posted by plugsnpixels View Post
I don't expect any surprises in the final version due later this summer. By that I mean, Lucis technology is stable (according to the developer, no bugs have been found in the current versions over the past several years) and the effects are familiar.

In playing with the pre-release core (which is not even a beta yet), I haven't come across any unexpected behavior–everything works as it should, and I have been happily cranking out treated images (running the Windows version on a Mac via Parallels, no less!). I offered the developer some user-interface related suggestions to make the experience even smoother (which are being considered), but haven't come across any bugs.

As for the value, there's no reason it should go down! I'm not sure what you mean by that. Everything about the Lucis experience will be improved in the LucisArt Pro version.
Thanks for your input! I intend to do the upgrade, however, I only know what I have read about the "Pro" version and it was encouraging to hear your comments.

Thanks again!
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  #586  
Old 05-05-2008, 02:07 PM
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

You're welcome, Don!

Keep an eye on this page, which I'll update as more info becomes available.
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  #587  
Old 05-10-2008, 10:05 AM
Aleksman71 Aleksman71 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

Here is another one without Lucis,just common effects in Paint Shop Pro XI
http://shrani.si/f/1r/6R/4Xj4fBE0/original.jpg
http://shrani.si/f/21/10r/2WwW6zEv/box1.jpg

P S
Images are not mine!!Owner is Ray Connolly
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  #588  
Old 05-10-2008, 10:32 AM
mrbeagle mrbeagle is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

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Originally Posted by crazyfly1 View Post
The pictures, anybody?

where's that write up you promised?
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  #589  
Old 05-11-2008, 04:47 AM
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crazyfly1 crazyfly1 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

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Originally Posted by mrbeagle View Post
where's that write up you promised?
LOL, It looked as though this thread was finally going to go peacfully into the night and join the likes of threads about OJ's guilt/inosence and the virtues of Tmax.
Here I've gone and brought it back.

OK, what I did was try to take a scientific approach to this Hill look. What we are all lacking is a before and after of a Dave hill image. Given the talent that frequents this forum, if an origional were made available along with a processesed image, I'm quite sure the "mystery" would disappear in short order. I looked and did not find an origional unretouched image. I decided to try to reverse engineer one of his images to see if I could restore it to close to what it probably looked like as shot.

At this point I need to make a disclosure, I was curious to see what would happen when I posted my deconstructed Hills. What happened was odd. Noone said "wow, that's amazing" or "oh my, how did you do that, that's so close." Oddly, on the contrary, what I got was.

I think that this is a nice try, but it looks very lucis arts
and

no where near dave hill... over processing using presets on plugins dont make it look like dave hill
and this from plugsnpixels

It's darker (??). Is that an "LA" gang sign?

Only mrbeagle seemed to think I was on to something.

Folks I appologize for my small deception by omission however I really wanted to put it to the test. It seems that Dave Hill is much more about the legend than about the actual art. Responses brought to mind those of a small child being told for the first time that there really is no Easter Bunny, "Nooo, say it isn't so."
Do any of you really want to know the process?

Anyway, what I found is that there is another problem with determining the method used to obtain this look in that it is actually TWO looks; one the darkend vigneted image, and the other the clown look (for lack of a better term). I spent most of my time trying to decipher the former. I post an example of each here.
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  #590  
Old 05-11-2008, 04:50 AM
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crazyfly1 crazyfly1 is offline
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Re: The demystification of dave hill! let's all he

The first thing i noticed was what is likely the last part of Dave's process and that is the serious vignetting that he uses. On inspection using levels I found that not only does he use vignetting but I believe he subjects at least some of his photos to two or even three vignettes and possibly some sort of circular lighting as well. I believe that if there is any real mystisism to this tecnique that it lies with this fairly masterfull use of vignetting to increase focus on the subject. I have posted and image to show this lighting.
What I found beyond that is really very little. In order to take a Dave image and make it close to normal, all that really needs to be done is to use curves or in raw just reverse the vignette effect. Then run another curves adjustment to bring out the mid tones.
If there was any one thing I found that was substantial it is that Dave could pattent his histogram. All of his images (excepting the clown photos with the fake backgrounds and it is even true of these if you select the subject and run the histogram on that) have almost identical histograms, they exist almost entireley in the shadows and fall off to nothing passed the midtone point just barely hanging on into the highlights.
In episode 103 of photoshop user tv, Matt Kloskowski showed how to do this effect (with no mention of Dave Hill) using raw or lightroom. (Raw and Lightroom use identical algorithms to process images.) Basically the process is ;slam recovery all the way up. slam fill all the way up, slam brightness all the way up, slam contrast all the way up, slam clarity all the way up, slam the vibrance all the way up, drop out almost all of the color, and then bring the blacks up to meet your histogram, and adjust highlights to taste. Now go and give you image a huge big black vignette and your there.
Try that and you will see that somewhere in there lies the "mystery" of Dave Hill. Will any one of us ever be able to post definitavly "I've got it, this is exactly how it's done."? No. Why? because even when a Dave Hill is posted we don't see Dave Hill in it, and because The other thing I learned is that I do belive Dave loves his teqnique and his images. I started out looking to find that he probably had a droplet on his desktop that was the mill through which all of his images were run. Not so, I think truer is that he processes each image individually but manually and to taste. Now Daves "taste" obviously runs to the dark and ominous however each image has it's own character while maintaining the "look".
In actuallity I believe a lot of you obtained what would pass for the "look" if only you had access and could put your images on Dave Hills site.
I hope you've found this interesting or at least entertaining. Credit to Dave Hill for his images which I used for educational purposes.
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Last edited by crazyfly1; 05-11-2008 at 04:31 PM.
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