The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

[RedRum]

Dave Hill???

[singlo]

In Digital SLR Photography article, it didn't mention why Dave often uses ringflash as fill light.

His lighting technique is nothing unique...many other photogrpahers use the same lighting. But it is interesting that he uses ring flash as fill on the top of a secondary brolly fill light. Jill Greenburg uses ring light as fill too. I have a good thought about it and can only think of two reasons:

1) ring flash is very effective fill light as it envelopes the subject and Dave often shoots very close to his subjects with wide angle lens to get his typical perspective effect. He would block some of the brolly fill light if he stands that close. So the ringflash is effective in his style of shooting. The brolly acts as secondary fill.

2) brolly fill produces soft light. Ring light is a small size of light source, so it produces a semi-hard light which is more specular---> popping the highlights of the subject skins and clothes. This will help later post-production process as he would have some exsitng highlights to start with, rather creating highlights not there in the first place.

It seems Dave uses very weak ring flash fill, if he shoot the subject at tight distance, he would have to use very low power, so maybe thats' why he put black tapes to cover part of the ring light reflector in his video....to cut down the power further below the minimum power available from the Profoto pack...otherwise he would have to cut a donut shape neutral density gel to cover the reflector, or alternatively bump up the power of the key and shoot with smaller f-stop. I don't know if this makes senses..otherwise i cannot think of other reason why he used black tapes in that occasion.

[Michael Bonner]

Originally Posted by singlo

In Digital SLR Photography article, it didn't mention why Dave often uses ringflash as fill light.

His lighting technique is nothing unique...many other photogrpahers use the same lighting. But it is interesting that he uses ring flash as fill on the top of a secondary brolly fill light. Jill Greenburg uses ring light as fill too. I have a good thought about it and can only think of two reasons:

1) ring flash is very effective fill light as it envelopes the subject and Dave often shoots very close to his subjects with wide angle lens to get his typical perspective effect. He would block some of the brolly fill light if he stands that close. So the ringflash is effective in his style of shooting. The brolly acts as secondary fill.

2) brolly fill produces soft light. Ring light is a small size of light source, so it produces a semi-hard light which is more specular---> popping the highlights of the subject skins and clothes. This will help later post-production process as he would have some exsitng highlights to start with, rather creating highlights not there in the first place.

It seems Dave uses very weak ring flash fill, if he shoot the subject at tight distance, he would have to use very low power, so maybe thats' why he put black tapes to cover part of the ring light reflector in his video....to cut down the power further below the minimum power available from the Profoto pack...otherwise he would have to cut a donut shape neutral density gel to cover the reflector, or alternatively bump up the power of the key and shoot with smaller f-stop. I don't know if this makes senses..otherwise i cannot think of other reason why he used black tapes in that occasion.

I think your analysis of his use of ringflash is pretty spot-on. I often shoot pretty close to my subjects with wide angles and hate having to compromise my shooting position to accommodate my lighting. That's why my next light is going to be the ABR800. Good call on the gaffer's tape as well- I haven't heard a logical explanation for that before, but yours is quite convincing.

[Gt_max]

Originally Posted by RedRum

Dave Hill???

Wow ! such great stuff
would it be possible for you to share your technics with us here in this thread?

[Calvinhollywood]

What does he write in the article? Some secrets? Some things we already didnt know?
I dont think so...

Is there a link to the article? I dont think so again:-)

lg Calvin

[singlo]

Originally Posted by Calvinhollywood

What does he write in the article? Some secrets? Some things we already didnt know?
I dont think so...

Is there a link to the article? I dont think so again:-)

lg Calvin

I quoted his descriptions of photoshop workflows in the article before. That is very much the main bit!

The article describes many examples of how he create and shot separate elements of each scene to create the composite...its very interesting stuff to read. But if you watch his behind the scene videos, you would have seen some of the stuff already.
I like his ghetto and laid back ways of creating water splash in his bathroom and fire in his parking lot. I am not really interested in Dave Hill's style of retouching but i learn something by looking his behind the scenes stuff. I admire this guy's creative imagination and how he uses minimum resources to create something that looks like big budget production. It is rare that photographers reveal trade secrets to the rest of the world and Dave is unique in this sense.

[Gee]

i'll try to grab a copy.
but not sure i can find it in belgium

[singlo]

http://www.digitalslrphoto.com/magaz...test-issue.php

[Andy Bird]

Hi all! I'm back! Dave Hill!
Well I know he uses quite a quick post-process, quick, meaning probably less than half a day post per photo. I'm fairly sure he uses Canon and positive he uses Profoto gear, not that that matters. You don't need 22mp med format cameras to do this.

I know it's pretty standard but, try renting a Ring flash (NOT the tiny canon one), two location strobes (1000W+ ) and "scamp"… do drawings of where you think he places his lights. He does indeed use A LOT of lighting but the three i mentioned is a great start for a portrait.

I hope this is okay advice, you won't get his look but you'll get your own. I suspect Dave uses a lot of masking, maybe some HDR, but definitely dodge&burn layers and colour adjust layers. That's what give's you your own magic.

http://www.andybird.net

[Andy Bird]

You're on the right track with the flash.
This photo is quite flat though. Seriously, watch music videos, watch a Michael Bay movie if you can stand it, good movie one sheets also.

Underexposing the background is a good start but this a one's a little too underexposed: Just a suggestion but try this:

Place your lights weather it's two flashes or sun and flash, faceing each other but at 45˚ to your model. The highlight (the light, behind the model) should be a bare head or the sun, the key light is nice if you can make it big and soft and a couple of stops lower (or further away) than the highlight.

If you've already tried this, ignore me!! BUt i've found it to be a great starting point for modeling the face : you'll see similar techniques in Bay movies, posters, paintings.

Look forward to seeing more!

[Mtmm]

Ring flash is so cool as a fill light. I did buy a third Ranger generator just for ring because it always is too powerful at close distance.

[longside1]

I've just bought a ringflash and intend to have a play with it this weekend....I can't wait! With regards to DH's use of black electrical tape, to be quite honest i think he was taking the pi$$ !

@Mtmm...you'll be pleased to hear this question has nothing to do with post processing workflow! How do you arrange your lights in relation to the subject?

After looking at the behind the scenes videos, it woulld appear that DH uses a couple of kickers, ringflash fill plus in some instances brolly fill. He also also uses a number of lights positioned very high in relation to the subject, aiming down on them.

I'm still learning about the principles of light, whilst I understand the purpose behind all the other forms of lighting, this use of high positioned light I find baffling.

Any thoughts?

[Mtmm]

Originally Posted by longside1

@Mtmm...you'll be pleased to hear this question has nothing to do with post processing workflow! How do you arrange your lights in relation to the subject?

http://mike.pakkotoisto.com/?p=404

This is a 3-point setup plus 2 kickers for background.

Does anyone konw what Dave did mean by saying "desaturate blacks"?

[pixelhunter]

I haven't read the thread. But the images on Dave Hill's website reminded me of this one:

http://www.dphotographer.co.uk/users...ro_digging.jpg

In the mag, Jarmo Glader explains (by my memory):
"I used one ringflash and one strobe. The eerie ligthing is what creates the 3d-like effect."

Now take it into Photoshop and exaggerate this effect further, and we're close.

[rystro]

Mtmm-

Select color rannge - Blacks

With that selection going, create a mask with it and then desaturate that masked layer.

This gives even more contrast.