The demystification of dave hill! let's all help!

[Calvinhollywood]

@Troco
Thanks for your informations about the Dave Hill Style but your pictures are not looking like Dave Hill.
But your pictures you interesting... so dont worry:-)

I shared my techniques on two webinars in the last two months and will do some other webinars. No Problems.
You can find the information when i do another one on my blog
http://www.calvinhollywood-blog.com

But dont expect to much.... i dont have secret techniques.
I use many many techniques in lighning and ps.
I cant explain all what i do in one hour or in a post here.

And i am sure Dave Hill cant explain his style here or anywhere else in some minutes or hours too.

By the way... Adam Bartas is absolutly right with some of his words.

lg Calvin

[troco74]

Hello calvin, thats right! dont look like dave at all, but are inspired in that kind of look, i dont wanna copy, i wanna find my own way to catch the soul of a shot, but i know that i can get that look if i had the correct lighting set up, this is the key.

i will try to take a picture in the next days and show you what im talking about.

the ring flash do the skintone, and the rim lights help to separate the models from the backgrounds, dave use 4 or 5 lights in his set ups, another important thing is the outdoors, when you do the shot outside, the sunlight help you to get the right postpro.

here is another photographer that REALLY get the look :P (i think theyre friends haha)
http://www.calebkuhl.com/portfolio/Gallery_1

i hope that this few tips help us!
keep in touch!

[Czarusek]

my result in pursuit of you
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9849/9copyd.jpg

[TimeActor]

Thats looking good!
Can you talk about your post processing?

Cheers
TimeActor

[sam_bond]

Here is a before/after from my latest shoot:

http://www.sambondphoto.com/files/BeforeAfter.jpg

1x Nikon SB900 into 46" umbrella, camera left
1x Metz 48-AF behind band.

Shot with a Nikon D300. Coloured in Lightroom, Very minimal dodging and burning in Photoshop.

It's all about the lighting!

Any questions?

[longside1]

Nice work Sam, completely agree re: the lighting. Whilst i like this shot, by virtue of the minimal D n B I think the image lack some of the pop that D H achieves.

Also, some of the global corrections have seem to have lost quite a bit of detail in the subjects clothing, i.e. teh bodies look very dark, although this could have been intended?

[RichardWood]

I use channels basically. Contrasting certain colours and overlaying them. Plus sharpening for a dave hillish look. Some more can be seen at
http://www.commercialphotographer.co.nz

[cypisek]

RichardWood, Nice !!!

[longside1]

Richard, are you able to provide a more detailed workflow?

[RichardWood]

bit of info here http://advancedphotoshop.co.uk/podcasts.php under Richard Wood
Otherwise, its lengthy and complicated. I will in the short future place a downloadable tutorial of some sort on my website. Private message me you details and I can let you know when I've done it. Workflow hard to summerise but can assure you its not about Lucis Art, HDR or overdone layers and layers of over sharpening or highpasses etc. Tis more local adjustments rather than global. In a nutshell, its about colour levels as burning adjustments (channels I guess in a way) smoothing(blurring), dodging and burning. And series and series of different layer overlaysmultiplies/softlights etc of sorts The www.commercialphotographer.co.nz is a small sample. You'll find more at www.richardwood.co.nz but its a real different mix of all sorts in there and really needs a tidy up.
Keep bugging me and I'll get a prop tut done

[manzneri]

*Bug*

[Aether]

Richard, let me add my own pestering to those wanting to see your workflow! That would be invaluable. Personally, I still love this kind of work (Greenberg, Dragan, Hill, Fiscus, Joey L, etc.), even if I don't end up using the look when/if I go pro for real, the tricks and techniques behind it seem so important to grasp. Regardless, I love learning all sorts of new techniques, so thanks to everyone whose contributed to this thread!

I gave this look a quick try, trying to use it in a more subtle way, to see if I could give a regular portrait a bit of boost without going full boar with it. Obviously I fell short, but I'd love to hear how I could improve on it.

[TreesOfMyTime]

This is an important point that many of the Post Process haters miss. I see signs of this and other methods used lightly and no one notices! But improvement is there!

The "overdone" is good too. Hey folks, it is all about what a person likes and that is their entitlement! Their ART! Give them that right!

[gamedonechanged]

I'm just getting interested in this technique. Can someone offer any advice as to some good resources? Should I just read through this entire thread?

Also I am not a photographer but it looks like lighting when shooting is important here. Can I still pick up the techniques to form a general workflow in this thread?

[pellepiano]

Well, this thread is one of the best resources.

[bimbo]

Here's my first try with 5-point lighting and sort of the illustrative look on a few photos of myself. I set the light and my friend took the pictures with my camera:
http://www.markusp.se/_X5O1124_medium.jpg
http://www.markusp.se/_X5O1138_medium.jpg

If you like I can write something about the workflow from shooting in the studio to finished retouch. Like I said, this was my first try and I learned that there are a lot of things that are kind of equally important to get good results.

/Markus

[gamedonechanged]

Did anyone try that method Robert Randall laid out on MM? I'm guessing this is the Glee hallway pic but some things I am not too sure of like when he says make a highlight mask of shadow mask ect...
Now, how he does it…

First of all, forget all about any dumb ass High Pass techniques you’ve been thinking of, because from what I can see, he doesn’t use them. Nor does he use a huge amount of Unsharp Mask. He uses local contrast controls through selections and masks.

For instance, look at the back pack on the other guy camera a right.* Normally that item would be blocked up and lacking detail.* Make a lasso selection around the back pack and ask for a layer curve. Brighten to taste. Next go to the same guys pants and do the same thing over for the pants. Now go to the sweater. Now go to the next guy and do the same thing to his little blue bag, then his sweater. Cross the hall to the guy and his leather jacket. Curve that, then his pants and then his hair.* Do this local selection curve technique to anything you feel like, when finished pumping up the local contrast, go get something to drink. Come back and judge whether you’ve gone too far or not far enough, and then fix stuff to taste.

Next, make a Highlight mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/HL%20mask%201.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Bring highlight up slightly.

Next, make a Highlight Mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/HL%20mask%202.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Bring highlight up slightly more. Notice how the picture starts to take on a sense of depth and life that you’re not familiar with. Fun, huh?

Next, make a Shadow mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/shadow%20mask%201.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Bring shadow down just a little bit, don’t get carried away here, it isn’t the right time for it.


Next, make a Shadow mask like this, or darker yet…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/shadow%20mask%202.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Now play with killing any detail you might have in this local select area of the shadow. This move sets up the down side of the picture just like the HL mask sets up the upside. By now you should be experiencing a sense of depth that will keep you off the porn sites for at least an hour. We’re not done yet!

Next make a difference mask like this…

http://www.robert-randall.com/MM/diff%20mask%201.jpg[/img]

Load it to make it active, and then ask for a layer curve. Now you can play with adding or detracting density from the midtone area to help create the illusion of more density. Usually this is a darkening move, but it can go the other way too.

Now ask for an empty layer and change its mode to softlight. Note that you can also use hard light or overlay if you prefer. Wherever you see a highlight that you want to embellish, start painting white with a brush, wrinkles, teeth, cheeks, lips, what ever you like, paint until you’re eyes bleed.* My way of doing this is to then blur the painted layer and add a Highlight Mask from the selection I gave you above. This is why my pictures don’t look like Jill Greenberg’s or Dave Hill’s. I use control over my painting emotional out bursts. Paint those arm and leg highlights too, don’t miss a thing!

Now do the same think with black paint on another softlight layer. Use a mask, don’t use a mask, it’s completely up to you.

If you still think there is room to screw the pooch a little harder, create a compound layer of all you have done and de-saturate it. Change the mode to soft or hard light and watch your contrast go through the roof. Still not enough? Make another compound copy and de-saturate it. Change the mode and ask for a HP filter. Give it a number of between 2 and 250 and watch that picture go thermo nuclear on you. Go to the closest mirror you can find and say the words “Fuck Dave Hill, you’re the man!”.

Any rational person at this point will note there are a thousand ways to skin a digital cat. What I’ve laid out is the basis for how young Mr. Hill achieves his look. I haven’t given you every nuance, because that could take days, and I may have missed a small point or two. But you should have learned at least one major point; there is no shortcut filter available that will do this. Also, you aren’t Dave Hill and even armed with this info, your pictures won’t look like his. But hopefully they will look like yours.

Okay, I’m ready for every malcontent know nothing wanna be that feels a need to challenge me on my DH dissection. Let me say in advance… fuck you, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[TreesOfMyTime]

Links do not seem to work!

[gamedonechanged]

Yeah I noticed. I have emailed Robert asking if he still has them. That seems to be it though or at least over on MM the general feeling is he nailed it. I remember seeing that thread when the pictures were active and was sure i saved the page but can't find it now.

[Aether]

Damn, a lot of that explanation seems really useful, but I'm not sure what he means specifically by highlight mask, shadow mask, or difference mask. Anyone more schooled than me know?

[gamedonechanged]

I think he means luminance masks. I know how to do a basic one but not in the manner he is saying. The screenshots probably would have helped. It was quite an old thread there tbh but im surprised that after 72 pages no one saw it.

To me it sounds like he is saying select different parts of the people and make selective contrast boosts using curves adjustment layers. But oddly he never says select the face ect... Not sure if this is just specific to this example or generally. Then it sounds like a luminance mask is made and another similar one after but that's where it get's wierd as I don't have the screenshots.

[Aether]

Okay, figured it out. There's two ways to do this. The first and probably least preferable is to go ctrl-alt-2 to select luminosity, then add a curves layer adjustment using the luminosity as a mask. Do the same think on an inverted image for the Shadow Mask, using the difference blending mode you take the difference of these two masks to make the Difference Mask.

A better way would be to have white as your foreground color, and go to Select Color Range. Now move the fuzziness until your get the desired amount of highlights selected, and use this for your highlight mask (then do the same on an inverted image, and then take the difference for the difference mask). This way you have a lot more control. Although it could be a combination of the two, since he double the masks. Maybe one is more global, and the other more specific.

This is handy stuff, I especially like using the highlights mask after doing the highlight carve layer, at low opacity it really helps to bring your painted highlights back to being more realistic without losing the effect.

I'd still love to see Richard Wood's method!

[gamedonechanged]

Yeah I emailed him earlier this week. No ETA on that tutorial yet mate.

[TreesOfMyTime]

But finally perhaps, we are understanding this process!

[gamedonechanged]

http://goodlight.us/writing/luminosi...tymasks-1.html

Just got passed onto this website which gives a good explanation of the type of masking required. Not going to look at it now as I am dead tired. But if your feeling brave....

[TreesOfMyTime]

Looks VERY interesting. I am tired as well, but I hit the donate button and should have the PDFs and the actions by morning!

[gamedonechanged]

Almost done reading that section. I didn't even know about how you can narrow the selections further to get the light lights and so forth.

Could it be that in Mr Randall's method above when he describes creating 2 consecutive light masks that the in one of them it is a light mask and then the second a more narrower one? Same goes for the darks.

Just a wild guess.

Anyway here is the picture he was doing. This is already obviously done but nothing stopping us doing it again to increase the effect.

http://www.ilovephotoblogs.com/wp-co...-nerd-geek.jpg

[jam1212]

Yep, you're exactly right. I stumbled on that MM thread a while ago (I'm pretty sure someone posted it here pages and pages and pages ago) and learned a lot from it.

The consecutive light masks he refers to are, in fact, narrower and narrower versions of the original "lights" mask. You apply slight curves adjustments to each one as a new layer, and that way they build up in a smooth and coherent manner. You do the same with the "darks" masks, except with an opposite curves adjustment. The end result is quite interesting.

[gamedonechanged]

Thanks for confirming jam121. I am playing around with a pic now, very sloppy stuff but the result is interesting. Will post up shortly.

[gamedonechanged]

Ok so I tried out Mr Randalls technique. Firstly this is one of Calvins pics from his training so I hope he will be ok with me using this for practice.

http://img51.imageshack.us/i/changingskintone.jpg/

http://img442.imageshack.us/i/changingskintone2.jpg/

I don't think a beauty shot is really the best thing to be using for this especially, or any women for that matter. I see what he means by using the luminocity curves. That is something I need to definitely play with more. Does anyone have a decent pic I can use to have a play with?

edit: Looking back on this now it's a little too bright too.