Skin Retouch - inspired by GodMother's video

[mrbeagle]

I tried to use some of the godmother techniques based on her video. Was hoping to get a little feedback on the skin retouch so far. She's right on one comment I read.. you're never done dodging and burning, man I have like 15 layers of curve adjustments already.

[KR1156]

calm down on your sharpening.

i can't even remember last beauty shot that i even sharpened at all. at lest globally.

[mrbeagle]

hmm how about this? I took off the sharpen layer....

[CathyH]

it is better without the sharpen layer, but her eyes need more work, the far one is to dark, and the other is still blood shoot and has some weird gray patches in them.

[mrbeagle]

here's another edit with the pores dialed down a tad and a tad whiter on the eyes....

[KR1156]

yea but theres still a lot of things needed to be fixed…

hair is clipped, skin is too yellow, lips also, 3/4's are really yellow.

some teeth are blueish, even though they lye in the under the sahdow, they should be more uniform in color.

front eye need major work, back eye is completely clogged, open up that heavy black you have going on.

those aare just the mojor things i see right away, why dont you just try cleaning up the blemishes, and color correcting things, as well as fix the eyes.

to me that would look better than such a heavy rtouch.

i'd rather have no retouching on my images than bad retouching. (i.e. fake skin techniques)

[Ziaphra]

Originally Posted by KR1156

GOOD STUFF HERE

i'd rather have no retouching on my images than bad retouching. (i.e. fake skin techniques)

I think this is uncalled for and quite rude.

[KR1156]

i also like to do these like 5-15 min images to practice.

take a couple of images, spend only 5min, or 10min, or 15min, depending on your speed, do quick cleanup, quickly mask the skin, do your D&B, and adjust color, and overall linearization to the image to your liking. then stop.

show to others to critique, if you have photogrpaher friends even better, and see what they say, this helps improve your eye, since you only have 10min to work on it, it tests your skills to see the main problematic areas, and what would improve the image best. just helps you to really see the image as a whole and not worry about every litle area.

[KR1156]

Ziaphra, i didn't mean that in a rude way, and it wasnt directed to that person's particular retouching or image.

i am working and typing really fast so i'm not making myself very clear at times, so a lot of my comments are a little cryptic.

i was just trying to make the point, that a lot of ppl on here also do, about skin techniques. when it looks obviously retouched, it doesn't look good.
-so, by not having that overly done rtouching, actually looks better, to me anyway. maybe i should have stated it better.

i'm sur most will agree.

sorry if you took that the wrong way beagle. but it wasn't meant that way!

[mrbeagle]

no that's cool, I appreciate the honest feedback.

[Ziaphra]

I do know what you mean but tactless comments (meant or not) via the anonymity of the internet still dig, especially when one is trying so hard to learn.

[mrbeagle]

my workflow on this one....

Duplicate background
Created a new layer for healing
Healed all the major blemishes, pimples, etc
Did some de-grunging
Started dodging and burning with curves layers (about 15 of em)
Desaturate adjustment layer
Selective color to bring down the yellows and reds

this was my first attempt at degrunging and dodge and burn so I'm still trying to get the hang of all the tweaks.

[Ant]

Originally Posted by Ziaphra

I do know what you mean but tactless comments (meant or not) via the anonymity of the internet still dig, especially when one is trying so hard to learn.

Who made you the Polite Police? stfu already.

[KR1156]

try the image again, this time using the same workflow, but excluding the degrunge step, and using only 2 curves for D&B. keep them in a folder, often, especially when starting out, your d&b'ing will be very heavy, you can bring the opacity of you d&b folder down a bit to like 70%, will bring back some natural look.

*use your desat layer to bring down the reds & yellows, no need for selective layer.

if you like to build some color back up, add a curve set to color mode to introduce some color back into the skin if it starts looking too desat. and flat. just watch out it doesn't look to monotone.

[Ziaphra]

Originally Posted by Ant

Who made you the Polite Police? stfu already.

..and you're another one...you are a talented but petty small minded person. Such a shame.

[KR1156]

ziaphra, we're just trying to help this person, maybe they aspire to be hi-end.

getting feedback from guys like ant is about as close as you're gonna get to working under the wing of someone at a hiend retouching house, over the internet.

honest criticism is way better for them than sugarcoating anything and saying way to go champ.

it really helped me a lot, maybe i just have thicker skin. but we were all at that point at sometime.

[cricket1961]

Originally Posted by KR1156

i'd rather have no retouching on my images than bad retouching.)

Ziaphra

This is actually a pretty common statement in the industry, coming from both Photographers and instructors. It is not meant to be derogatory in any way. Although there are a few people that have managed to use it in a most destructful way.

Chris

[edgework]

Originally Posted by Ziaphra

I do know what you mean but tactless comments (meant or not) via the anonymity of the internet still dig, especially when one is trying so hard to learn.

This website is called "RetouchPro," not "Retouch Hobbyist" or "Photoshop for Fun." If the name means anything, it's necessary to stop pretending that sloppy work gets a pass. Good intentions mean nothing and tender feelings belong in a playpen.

In my other life I was and am a student and writer of poetry. A teacher long ago set the context for everything I've tried to do subsequently: he said "If you want to be taken seriously, and you want to take yourself seriously, face the grim fact that you're not competing with your classmates, or poets in magazines, or even the poets in this anthology. You're competing with Shakespeare. That's the bar that's been set, and if that's not the standard you aspire to, do something else." No less true for the creative efforts here.

mrbeagle, good for you, putting your work out there for all to see. And, it would appear, for listening. You seem to recognize that trying isn't enough. Actually, "trying" is just a P.C. way to avoid saying "failure." The only thing that counts is doing it right, and if it doesn't make the cut, there's no amount of spin that will compensate. And the only way to do it right is to spend a lot of time doing it wrong and learning to avoid whatever things you tried that made it wrong.

It's not about how you feel about your efforts, or about how anyone else feels either. It's about the image. And when you learn to look at an image you've just spent ten hours slaving over, and can deliver the same cold assessment that KR1156 gave, then you'll be about halfway there.

In another thread, Ant offered a marked up critique of someone's efforts. It wasn't blunt, or cruel, it was accurate. If one of the art directors I work for saw your image, it would come back with numerous red marks on the overlay (we call them "Slasher Shots"). Why don't you beat everyone to it, and provide your own markup. Be a real a__hole about it too. Have no pity or consideration for the retoucher's feelings. In fact, try to crush the poor sap's spirit. When your reflex to complain about your own work exceeds your instinct to defend it, you will improve dramatically.

[pixel_monkey]

It’s never easy to swallow when you think that you’ve created a masterpiece and someone comes along and points out all the faults that you need to improve upon. It might sound absurd, but a good part of the learning process of being an artist is to learn how to handle criticisms. I’d rather have my work critiqued, and perhaps, ripped apart by an industry professional than getting a pat on the shoulder by my family and friends. Your skills will eventually stop improving if there’s no one there to challenge you and you will fall behind.

[KR1156]

i get my work crit. on a daily basis, by very hi-end and veteran retouchers, and i love it and appreciate that they take the time.

i've learned a ton in the last year. invaluable info. from these critiques.

as long as the criticism is constructive, appreciate it.

for me personally, i think the most challenging part, or area i find most difficult, is color. I've worken on some amazing photography lately, and just when i think i did great, i get areas pointed out where the color is suspect. but that's what is making me better every image.

plus, i put in a ton of time practicing all night long on hirez images, and it finally paid off.

[mrbeagle]

Originally Posted by KR1156

as long as the criticism is constructive, appreciate it.

definitely feel the same

[AdamZx3]

The skin lighting needs evened out on her forehead, it looks almost bumpy from the shadows. The lighting on the whole model is very contrasty, I might try and lighten up her left side a bit, but I guess it depends what look your going for. (or the photographers )

[Oh_Heck]

Is it just me....or is her fake eyelash on her right eye loose..

Hope you don't mind me playin a bit with this picture. Its a good one to learn on for skin, and I need all the practice I can get. I used the technique on this site this time around.

http://www.photoshopsupport.com/phot...is_202-215.pdf

Tried to blend in some of the different tones a bit...probably overdone, dunno. Starting to stock up on magazines though so I can get some reference.

Didn't touch the white of the eyes yet....trying to work out how to approach that without having it look flat and fake..

[mrbeagle]

ok I'm back for more....
I went for a whole different workflow this time trying to take some of the advice in the thread (thanks all by the way!)

soooo I dialed everything way down (well tried to). It's funny this morning I swore that was the best retouch I've done. I came back tonight and looked and it and I could see it was blotchy as hell. I see what you guys mean about leaving and coming back after a few minutes.

anyway, here is a new before after with the same image.

thanks

[mrbeagle]

forgot to ask, the new edit... same, better, worse?

[Smokie]

mrbeagle the first retouch you have done on this image you have made the skin look wicked ( kink of like a lizards skin in a wired kind of way) and i just want to know how you did it?

i think it will look cool on one on my images

[cricket1961]

Looks a lot better than the first attempt. Still has a crossover of colors in the flesh. Need to balance it out. You have yellows. blues, magenta and pinks going on.
You really need to clean out the whites in her left eye. Also try to open up the iris on the eye in shadow just a little. It will add to the depth of the image. Soften down the hair below her nose and above her lip a little. Don't take it away though. There is a white bump/spot under her bottom lip that needs to go. Eyelashes on the left eye on the top row only should be more uniform. There is a crease coming out almost from the stud diagonally down to the left that should be removed. As well as some of the darker creases in the bottom lip. She has a small bugger in her nostril.
As I mentioned if you wish to send me the hi res to my ftp I will mark it up for you. Just let me know.

Chris

[KR1156]

pretty nice improvement from the first, it's now at a much better starting point. Follow chris' lead and you'll be in a good place. nice going.

[mrbeagle]

thanks Chris,
I'm not even sure how to tackle that left eye yet because it has so much going on. Do I mask it out, then paint white, lower the opacity then go in and do some d&b on any remaining spots? heal it? clone it?

[mayday]

[QUOTE=cricket1961;166677]Looks a lot better than the first attempt. Still has a crossover of colors in the flesh. Need to balance it out. You have yellows. blues, magenta and pinks going on.

Like KR1156 was saying I can find colour issues troublesome as well! I try to go by the number but sometimes still get some unexpected colours.

Chris what would your best method be to balance things out?
Would you just pinpoint the colour shift areas in curves chanels and adjust by numbers and eye? Do you ever find it good to desaturate some chanels like the red? I'd apreciate and tips or advice