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Burn And Dodge Problems

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  #11  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:07 AM
KR1156 KR1156 is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

also keep in mind, the pros use this method along with pro models, pro makeup, pro stylist, pro photography, etc.

if you're just messing around with your digital pics from joe schmoes bday party, healing brush will suit just fine!

Last edited by KR1156; 10-12-2007 at 11:20 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2007, 11:12 AM
Ant Ant is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by NimfabebeAida View Post
It's my opinion so it's no up to u to say if it's right or wrong. I said it takes a lot more if u do it with dodge and burn, and if there is a faster way it should take it. There are more ways of doing the same thing in Photoshop.
It is up to me to say how I see it. I looked at your work and there is a reason you are looking for work... I'm a professional. I know right from wrong and am qualified to make the distinction. I also wish to stop the bad advise from spreading for the benefit of those who wish to learn.
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2007, 03:23 PM
CaptainHook CaptainHook is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by NimfabebeAida View Post
Don't be this agressive
Dont be this passive aggressive.


See, i shouldn't tell people how to behave either.
The only people here that can actually censor Ant's posts,
are the mods. And so far, from what i know they
let him be.

I personally am not offended by Ant's approach and
actually appreciate his directness without sugar coating
anything.

I also appreciate a lot of the input from chris, edgework,
KR1156, etc, etc

Like with photoshop, everyone has their style.
You don't have to like them all, but trying to make
them fit your view of what's acceptable isn't fair
on everyone else either.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2007, 03:59 PM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

Actually the methods you use depends largely on resolution and sharpness. On high quality images you have to approach like a cosmetic surgeon suffering from OCD - but "if you're just messing around with your digital pics from joe schmoes bday party, healing brush will suit just fine!" as KR says is probably true. Theres no point is arsing around wasting time if theres no visible skin texture to begin with. For far away stuff or anything that even remotely out of focus its amazing what you can get away with, no point in taking 3 hours using D&B to do something that will take half an hours work, and achieve the same result.

Whats certainly out is any blurring or filtering whatsoever - just never works, and always looks awful, doesn't matter how you try and do it, using "clever" channel operations or whatever, it will always look retouched. Blurring destroys not just texture but also tonal shifts important to retain form, and the eye can always pick up on this.
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  #15  
Old 10-13-2007, 05:26 PM
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Hello_taipan Hello_taipan is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

i'm a newbie-white-belt in retouching. And I am greatful to find posts saying "this or that is BS if u want pro results"
i spent months blurring things off thinking i was doing it right until a post stated clearly, underlined and bold : no blur !!
Thanks to that i could improve, letting aside techniques that'd bring me nowhere near a retouching career.

Last edited by Hello_taipan; 10-13-2007 at 06:19 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2007, 08:24 AM
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SteveB2005 SteveB2005 is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markzebra View Post
Actually the methods you use depends largely on resolution and sharpness. On high quality images you have to approach like a cosmetic surgeon suffering from OCD - but "if you're just messing around with your digital pics from joe schmoes bday party, healing brush will suit just fine!" as KR says is probably true. Theres no point is arsing around wasting time if theres no visible skin texture to begin with. For far away stuff or anything that even remotely out of focus its amazing what you can get away with, no point in taking 3 hours using D&B to do something that will take half an hours work, and achieve the same result.

Whats certainly out is any blurring or filtering whatsoever - just never works, and always looks awful, doesn't matter how you try and do it, using "clever" channel operations or whatever, it will always look retouched. Blurring destroys not just texture but also tonal shifts important to retain form, and the eye can always pick up on this.
And another thing to remember is, on the really high rez images that pros are shooting for pre-press for the leading fashion mags, the photographer has a whole staff of assistants to get the best he/she can out of the camera. All the great retouching tricks in the world are not going to "save" a substandard image. A journeyman pre-press tech took me on a tour at a really high end production house and the retouchers and color correct team won't even work an image if it is not already 90-95% there anyway. If it is a film image, they will tell the drum scanners to rescan it. Those files are HUGE! You can see blackheads on top of blackheads, pimples on pimples, lip hair, blood shot eyes, etc. And those pores are bigtime and have to remain flawless in the image.

I do some retouching, but not at that level, unless I can get the D&B thing down and some other techniques, I wouldn't bother testing at a high end shop. I was on on a test once and some dude was being tested. The better shops will pay you to test and his test was about 2 hours to clean up a hi-rez fashion model. He spent about 30 minutes using the standard simple "gaussian blur trick" we all know, smearing pixels with the cloner. The supervisor came over to check his work and he just said, "what is this, are you kidding me"? That won't fly here sir. They told him to study more and come back in a year when he felt "professional."

Last edited by SteveB2005; 10-17-2007 at 08:34 AM.
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:06 AM
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Markzebra Markzebra is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

"The supervisor came over to check his work and he just said, "what is this, are you kidding me"? That won't fly here sir. They told him to study more and come back in a year when he felt "professional." he was lucky. Over here I've seen people just dropped, no indication of why , no help. Its to stop them learning anything I reckon. Pisses me off, but just goes to show that there's a lot of people working who are defensive enough to treat people like that.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:30 PM
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SteveB2005 SteveB2005 is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainHook View Post
Dont be this passive aggressive.


See, i shouldn't tell people how to behave either.
The only people here that can actually censor Ant's posts,
are the mods. And so far, from what i know they
let him be.

I personally am not offended by Ant's approach and
actually appreciate his directness without sugar coating
anything.

I also appreciate a lot of the input from chris, edgework,
KR1156, etc, etc

Like with photoshop, everyone has their style.
You don't have to like them all, but trying to make
them fit your view of what's acceptable isn't fair
on everyone else either.
I know some here think Ant can be sharp in his opinions, but he is a working pro and he knows what it takes to get into the high end retouching houses. His truth, critiques and comments can sting the ego a bit, but he gives credit when credit is due. You do have to be at a certain high enough level to work in high end pre-press and retouching plants. The money and budgets on these ads is easily high 5 and 6 figure costs to run them, especially cosmetic and fashion concepts.

It would be cool to learn a few fancy Photoshop tricks, push a few buttons and create these outstanding pro looking retouches, and then check your bank balance for the big bucks, but unfortunately, that's not the real high end ad world. It's still a craft that's mostly done manually with an artistic eye and knowing the program and be able to consistantly get results in the allotted time. I doubt we will be seeing robotics taking over the craft like the car builders at GM are using on the assembly line that literally put many auto workers into early retirement

Some of the ads I have seen for high end retouchers demand the utmost skill, professionalism and quality workflow. I think that is what Ant is trying to convey to people, you have to be tops in the big game to make the cut, and it ain't easy brother to getting there, other than hard work and talent
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2007, 05:34 PM
Oh_Heck Oh_Heck is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

I always find it amusing how people will come in and excuse Ants rude behavior. Fine, the guy does work professionally. There are plenty of professionals out there, and I'm sure there are many far superior to Ant, that lack his bloated ego and sense of self adoration.

Christ, he equated giving information to people on this board like "taking rednecks to a wine tasting.."

Plenty books, classes and people out there to get good information from without having to deal with Ants garbage.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2007, 06:54 PM
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Hello_taipan Hello_taipan is offline
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Re: Burn And Dodge Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh_Heck View Post
Christ, he equated giving information to people on this board like "taking rednecks to a wine tasting.."
i remember that post, lol ! i liked the metaphor XD
funny thing i got a teacher exactly like that, using the same expression "button pushers"
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