The demystification of Jill Greenberg!!!

[superkoax]

Originally Posted by mr.aj

if i was jill i woulnt regret anything. you are being way too sensitive, man...that is what is wrong with the army today...too many mothers. Toughen up a little bit, so what the kids are crying, kids cry, who cares. What matters is she got a shot you will never be good enough to get, and she did it by taking candy from a baby. Maybe you can learn something from her...maybe not.

hehe...! So, I'm a mother? hehe...wow! You are truly mature in your way of discussing, I must admit it was really funny to read! To debate on your statements, Jill is a VERY good photographer. But sometimes people go a bit too far to achieve good results!

Yes, I admit, I'm not even close to her results, but so are probably everyone else in here! What is it to learns from Jill? Well, that going too far is really too far! As a father I wouldn't let anyone do this too my son, so the parents to these kids should also think twice!

[transoptic]

That's just the point. The parents of those kids consented. They probably even got good monetary compensation. What would be the difference if Jill jumped around a corner and yelled "BOO!!!"?

Does it emotionally scar the kids for life? No. In fact, I bet none of them even remember that day. So to say it's going too far is silly. Especially to label it as exploitation. If all the times I've been exploited in my life was because someone stole my lollipop, I'd be a happy happy man.

[comeclose]

just cut the crap guys. Everytime I tried to find a tutorial about Jill Greenberg's work it always ended in controversy about her crying children work. This thread started out very nice and this is actually my first post and I joined because of this thread, so helpful thanks to Pellepiano, Sistere, and Enigmaphoto.
Take the debate about her crying children work somewhere please! I believe we have enough discussion of that.

Btw, when you reply there is a small note on the top of the box, quote:
"(If your reply is off-topic, please start a new thread instead)"

Need to say clearer than that?

[saby]

there is nothing more honest than face of a child could be

saby

[ikagami]

Originally Posted by pellepiano

Dodge and Burn usually refers to the tools with the same name, while PWL is when you have a layer filled with 50% grey , set to Overlay, and paint with black or white. Both methods do the same thing but the Dodge and Burn tools have some extra choices like , only burn midtones and so on.

why filled with 50% Grey??
50% grey will be invisible in the overlay mode so you dont have to fill the layer with 50% grey. Just a new layer set to overlay is enough.

[transoptic]

^^ It's helpful to me personally when I want to view only the overlay layer to see how my brushstrokes look.

[pellepiano]

I dont use a grey layer myself but I once read a good explanation on why its used ( that I now have forgot ). The difference could be how photoshop handles transparency in different blend modes, opposed to a filled area.

Havent noticed any difference when testing though.

[superkoax]

Originally Posted by transoptic

That's just the point. The parents of those kids consented. They probably even got good monetary compensation. What would be the difference if Jill jumped around a corner and yelled "BOO!!!"?

Does it emotionally scar the kids for life? No. In fact, I bet none of them even remember that day. So to say it's going too far is silly. Especially to label it as exploitation. If all the times I've been exploited in my life was because someone stole my lollipop, I'd be a happy happy man.

Yes, the parents are to blame as well! That I'm agreeing on! But to say that it's ok to do it since the kids can't remember it later in life?!

We agree to disagree...

Originally Posted by comeclose

just cut the crap guys. Everytime I tried to find a tutorial about Jill Greenberg's work it always ended in controversy about her crying children work. This thread started out very nice and this is actually my first post and I joined because of this thread, so helpful thanks to Pellepiano, Sistere, and Enigmaphoto.
Take the debate about her crying children work somewhere please! I believe we have enough discussion of that.

Btw, when you reply there is a small note on the top of the box, quote:
"(If your reply is off-topic, please start a new thread instead)"

Need to say clearer than that?

Don't be so full of your self here...BOOHOO...You look for Jill tutorials! Not my problem you can't find them? I mentioned this as a side thing in my opening post when starting this thread! So cut the BS when you call this off topic! This has nothing to do with off topic since it's her techniques/workflow that's being discussed in photo/retouching!

I admit that I diverted the discussions a little bit when I mentioned this situation earlier, but it's nothing to cry over is it? This is the last time I'm going to mention it! so wuhu!!!

Originally Posted by saby

there is nothing more honest than face of a child could be

saby

Nice feel over it, sab!

[saby]

thanx Gerry

saby

[prizo]

I think my latest photo-shoot resulted in a somewhat 'Greenburgian' shot:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2280/...559b560524.jpg

[EternalTomorrow]

Originally Posted by prizo

I think my latest photo-shoot resulted in a somewhat 'Greenburgian' shot:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2280/...559b560524.jpg

what did you do for post work and what was your lighting setup?

[Calvinhollywood]

Nice thread here... great superkoax

By the way... amy is a lovely person....she dont have secrets.

I guess Amy WAS the retoucher of Jills pictures. I am not sure

lg Calvin

[zogdart]

I don't think jill did anything wrong with the kids.
If you go to the mall, Go see Santa Claus and check out how many kids are scare to sit on santa's lap...and how many are crying...but yet the parent's still want's the picture!

I was at the mall yesterday and i saw this quite a few times... Espacialy around that age!!! are there bad parent's ? did you check your own photo's when you where a kid if you where crying in some of them? does that mean your parent's where bad if you have picture of you crying? All i'm saying is at this age they will cry for almost anything. So i don't see anything wrong. i'm sure the parent's that where there are responsable and loving parent's. there was no slaping. just taking away a candy.

that's my opinion.

[pellepiano]

Here is sort of Jill lighting, but the PP is still lacking.

[mrkronk]

Might as well give it a 1-2 try.

-C

[superkoax]

PELLE: Nice one there...like the funny situation you've created..

Mrkronk: Looks very good with the facial expression and the highlights, but the side lighting is too bright! If you look under his jaw it looks liek his head has been placed on top of the body due to the lighting there...can you make the skin there equal to the rest of his neck?
I just added my edition...hope you don't mind?

I tried to take down the higlights on his neck and tried to get more texture of the burned out areas on the sides there...nothing much, but some...

[mrkronk]

Superkoax,

Thanks a tonnes for the input / retouch - much appreciated.
I figured a lot of the issues are best fixed in the actual shooting process... things to change for next time I suppose.

I'm workin on smoothin out those hard lines right now... ill upload my rendition when I finish.

Thanks a lot though, respect.

-C

[EternalTomorrow]

Originally Posted by mrkronk

Superkoax,

Thanks a tonnes for the input / retouch - much appreciated.
I figured a lot of the issues are best fixed in the actual shooting process... things to change for next time I suppose.

I'm workin on smoothin out those hard lines right now... ill upload my rendition when I finish.

Thanks a lot though, respect.

-C

care to fill us in on your process?

[zogdart]

I came across a video of her today on you tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-juH...=jill+grenberg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byt3_...eature=related

i taught some people would like to see some of her lighting set-up!

[namphoto]

i got the answer!

$3,000+ worth of lights and modifiers
$20,000+ camera and digital back
$500+ DJ

the ingenuity of post processing: priceless

and for everything else, there's retouchpro.

[zogdart]

good one namphoto!

but you can have the same look for a lot cheaper.

a decent canon. some cheap strobe's (light is light)

and put on your favorite CD

I still have my photogenic that i bought years ago, recycling is slow but the outpout is still 5500K. 2 silver unbrella. you rent a ring flash. 2 grid light. + a hair light and your on business!

[superkoax]

Originally Posted by zogdart

I came across a video of her today on you tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-juH...=jill+grenberg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byt3_...eature=related

i taught some people would like to see some of her lighting set-up!

nice, thanks for sharing this with us!

Originally Posted by namphoto

i got the answer!

$3,000+ worth of lights and modifiers
$20,000+ camera and digital back
$500+ DJ

the ingenuity of post processing: priceless

and for everything else, there's retouchpro.

Hehe! I feel your hungerfor more money and feeling a bit lost to the end results since the shoots are done with high end equipment, BUT she started out somewhere right!?

[xfx]

Gwen steff type greenberg. Low res.

[pixelzombie]

Originally Posted by xfx

Gwen steff type greenberg. Low res.

looks nice, what does the original look like?

[meditom]

good job xfx. can you tell us something about your workflow? only dodge and burn
or filters too?

[skydog]

I can move this question if it doesn't fit. Those with lighting experience what exactly is Jill using here? What is the cost of each item? What is the alternative if one is on a budget? If I have no lighting except a 580EX would you invest in the type of lighting Jill uses or something else. You may say it depends on the effect I want to achieve, but lets say I want a sound good basic flexible portable reliable system. I could pay $3000, but less is better and value is more important than name unless value/name is the same.

[superkoax]

XFX: Very nice feel to that! did you light this subject? Or did you just retouch it?

[namphoto]

Originally Posted by skydog

I can move this question if it doesn't fit. Those with lighting experience what exactly is Jill using here? What is the cost of each item? What is the alternative if one is on a budget? If I have no lighting except a 580EX would you invest in the type of lighting Jill uses or something else. You may say it depends on the effect I want to achieve, but lets say I want a sound good basic flexible portable reliable system. I could pay $3000, but less is better and value is more important than name unless value/name is the same.

youre probably looking 2000 per light, assuming she uses profoto lights or something. Ive seen her use parabolic umbrellas somewhere and those go up to 5000 each. so, two front lights, two hair lights, one overhead fill, and ring flash. over 10,000 for her set up.. OR buy four of those 580ex, umbrella adapters, two reflective umbrellas in the front, two DIY gridded flashes for hair lights, and buy an a good ringflash (most diy or cheap alternatives to a ringflash suck.)

my set up is just 2 AB800s with refletive umbrellas, one EF 500 for hair lighting. I like it so far.

[xfx]

Pixelzombie: Thanks. I'll think about it.
Meditom: D&B and some sharpening technique. Thanks.
Superkoax: 7 Light setup and PP. I'll upload and post link for bigger image. Thanks.

My point of view regarding equipment: It's not very necessary to spend what greenberg really have. As long as u have a decent and lots of lights(watever brand that is), know how to use them like how to meter the the 3 lights in front and a darn good PP workflow, i think it'll be close enough to get the effect. I may be wrong but just speaking thru my experience.

[zogdart]

i second XFX

Light is Light. I have profoto, speedotron and photogenic. I started out with photogenic back then, i found them second hand on ebay. I can put any soft-box or umbrellas i want on them. what you need to check is what kind of accesory you can hoock up to them. i just did a test with 4 different umbrellas. from profoto $$$$$ to aurora -$ and there is not a huge differece between them. the hardest to find is the ring flash beacause there is not that many compagny who makes them. if you what one there usaly made to go on a power pack. you could by a profoto or other brand and go to specialize shop and have the end cord change to fit on a speedo or other brand. but again you would need a power pack. the thing with self contain flash is when there high (like a hair light) you need to climb on a lader every time you make an adjustment + it's harder to find beauty dish or some accesories depending on the brand + the recycling is usaly much slower. I would recomand on finding second hand power pack with strobes. but to acheive what jill is doing you don't need 30 000$ worth of equipement. You could rent a ring flash for a day! and have 5 cheap mono blocks to do the same. 2 grids + 3 silver umbrelas.