To BLUR or not to BLUR

[kevin thompson]

I was told by a "High-end" photographer/retoucher that you NEVER blur an image. It destroys skin texture, smoothes everything out and gives a plastic, not natural look. Making up skin texture is also no good because it does not look like real skin texture.

I was also told that a lot of NYC photographers still shoot film. I am not a camera expert but it seems to me digital cameras give you that smooth look to begin with.

The tutorial for the "Dior Look" is great but it relies heavily on the blur and I am not sure you can use that technique everywhere.

There are ways to do the job without blurring but that is time consuming.

So I am confused and looking for opinions on the use of blurring.

Is it OK to have blurred images with made up skin texture in your portfolio? Or should you keep looking for the best originals to avoid the blur all together?

[Ant]

Don't blur.

High end retouching takes time. High end retouching does not utilize blur.

[edgework]

Originally Posted by kevin thompson

I was told by a "High-end" photographer/retoucher that you NEVER blur an image. It destroys skin texture, smoothes everything out and gives a plastic, not natural look. Making up skin texture is also no good because it does not look like real skin texture.

What you are describing are uses of the blur technique that create a mess. If you try to fix everything by blurring, you'll fix nothing and and everyone will say, "Ah, blurred skin. Never works." As with every technique and tool, the trick is to hide your tracks. If they know you were there, you lose.

There are ways to do the job without blurring but that is time consuming.

I find that a job never consumes any more time than what is required to do it right.

Is it OK to have blurred images with made up skin texture in your portfolio? Or should you keep looking for the best originals to avoid the blur all together?

What you want are the best images you are capable of producing, images that someone can look at and think "I'd like to be able to do that," or better, "I'd like to hire him to do that." If you accomplish this, it's no one's business how you got there, and if you do it consistently, no one will care.

[Ant]

FYI, there is nothing high end about any tutorials here. Do not look to do high end work from things you find on this website or others.

[Benny Profane]

well, that dodge and burn thing floating around is a "high end" technique, but, yeah, not a whole lot else.

Don't blur. Unless it's a special case, and they want some weird look, which I've seen. But, 99% of the time, grab a coffee, put on the headphones, and get to work. You get paid by the hour.

[Sweetlight]

Maybe I am missing something but are we talking "blur" as in the sense of a way of removing blemishes and such or "blur" as in a Hassellblads #3 Soft Focus?

[kevin thompson]

I appreciate your answers. They confirmed what I was told. One ad can take 60+ hours to do with edits and composited elements. That is a different world than what is on this website. Hopefully I can get there someday.

[pixelzombie]

i agree that you shouldn't blur or at least be able to hide your blurring, but as you can see in the link i have posted it does happen and for some very big names..not every project you get your hands on will have a big budget...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45178172@N00/2086220420/

[keiserjohn]

Originally Posted by Ant

FYI, there is nothing high end about any tutorials here. Do not look to do high end work from things you find on this website or others.

I agree with Ant to some extent. The tutorials here are not high end. But still if
you learn them you will get a deeper understanding of how you can use Photoshop to get the effects you wan't.
You don't have to follow them step by step, but more understand the idea behind it all.

You simply have to take the best of each tutuorial. And do it your style.

Look at magazine covers, study the ads. And then try to create the same effect.
And blurring is almost never an option. Dodge n'burn, spot removing. Are things you will come a long way with.

[Markzebra]

... and proper dodge and burn , or L and D as its sometimes called over here is not THAT time consuming when you get good at it, how refined the result depends on how many passes you make.

[kajak]

can someone pls explain the concept of D&B -or post link- the idea of blurring is to make the skin more even how can D&B achieve that?

[JayNads]

Originally Posted by kajak

can someone pls explain the concept of D&B -or post link- the idea of blurring is to make the skin more even how can D&B achieve that?

Blurring also removes all traces of detail. D&B reduces unwanted texture by darkening bright spots and lightening dark spots. A small pimple can be made invisible by darkening the top and brightening the bottom so that the tones are equalized with the surrounding skin.

This is done at huge zoom, pixel by pixel.

[Daviskw]

Hi there

I respectfully differ with some of the posts above....especially that there are no procedures or techniques on this site that would be used in professional work.

Open any magazine and really look at the photos presented. You will find many that could be improved by techniques presented on this site.

The Dior look…or an Illustrated look are just that...LOOKS...and they have their place. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve and why. You will find these looks in all so-called high-end publications.

Often there is no need for some of the retouching techniques because the quality of the work you are starting with does not require it. Then the refining pixel by pixel is the best way to improve a photograph. BUT you can’t always be guaranteed to start with prefect work.

To me… the bottom line… is the artistic talent...the eye for detail… the ability to take what is in our mind and make it a reality that counts. This site will help you towards those goals.

By the way... I have little of the above….lol

Butch

[shellby]

dont blur, dodge and burn or lighten and darken

[cricket1961]

See my post here on this. It should clear up some stuff.

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/blo...confusion.html

Chris

[JayNads]

Chris - excellent explanation. Most of what I have learned has been gleamed from books and the occasional lecture. Meaning that I get 80% misinformation and 20% fact, making sorting the truth from the fiction a tough job. It's great that you take the time to demystify the reality for those of us confused by the hype. Thanks!

Looking forward to Vegas!

[MartinBabies]

If the model needs smoother skin the make-up artist will fix it and not the retoucher (hopefully). Make-up keeps the skin texture and looks a lot better in the end.

[cricket1961]

Martin

I have worked with some of the best makeup artists in the world. They can only do so much for shots that are within 8 inches of the face. At that point the makeup would need to be caked on. Thickly.
Smoother skin is not the same as seeing the natural texture of the skin, something that makeup can and usually does disguise.

Chris

[MartinBabies]

Really? Didn't know that, thanks for letting me know.

[KR1156]

yea it's great for quick fixes also....like doing apply image...in a localized kind of way.

comes in handy on vacation pics!

[keiserjohn]

Chris T.

I have a question about your dodge and burn post.

I also use a 50 % grey softlight layer for dodge and burn, on the image. But this is usually when i doing it on biggere areas, to enhance the highlights and shadow.

But for pores/wrinkles close up to the skin, i find using a 4 x adjustments layers(lighter,darker,b&w, high contrast) with a low opacity and flow on my pen
a much easier way to retouch the skin.

This way when i need to go back, i can always paint with black, hit the d button, instead of changing the brush to 50 % gray.

[transoptic]

Originally Posted by keiserjohn

Chris T.

I have a question about your dodge and burn post.

I also use a 50 % grey softlight layer for dodge and burn, on the image. But this is usually when i doing it on biggere areas, to enhance the highlights and shadow.

But for pores/wrinkles close up to the skin, i find using a 4 x adjustments layers(lighter,darker,b&w, high contrast) with a low opacity and flow on my pen
a much easier way to retouch the skin.

This way when i need to go back, i can always paint with black, hit the d button, instead of changing the brush to 50 % gray.

But why would you switch back and forth between a light and dark layer? It's a lot easier to just do it on one layer and hit "X" to switch between brushes.

[keiserjohn]

But its much harder to see the variations on a gray layer.
And also when you seperate it out on 2 different layers, i find it easyer to hold control, especially when you have to go back.

[edgework]

Originally Posted by keiserjohn

But its much harder to see the variations on a gray layer.
And also when you seperate it out on 2 different layers, i find it easier to hold control, especially when you have to go back.

It's a preference for workflow, is all. I find that dual layers can get in each others' way, with both inadvertently acting on the same pixels. With a single layer, my lightening and/or darkening strokes do just that. It's all located in one layer.

[cricket1961]

Originally Posted by keiserjohn

Chris T.

I have a question about your dodge and burn post.

I also use a 50 % grey softlight layer for dodge and burn, on the image. But this is usually when i doing it on biggere areas, to enhance the highlights and shadow.

But for pores/wrinkles close up to the skin, i find using a 4 x adjustments layers(lighter,darker,b&w, high contrast) with a low opacity and flow on my pen
a much easier way to retouch the skin.

This way when i need to go back, i can always paint with black, hit the d button, instead of changing the brush to 50 % gray.

Hello Keiser

I'm sorry. But what is the question? Or is there no question and you are just letting us know what your workflow is?

Technically what you are doing for your wrinkles/pores closeup of the skin is not the same as using the softlight layer. A curve layer hiding behind a mask is a good way to do local color corrections, but when you are doing it to achieve the same effect as brushing through a softlight layer it is different. The curve introduces a disproportionate amount of correction in the midtones than it does in shadows and hilights. You just need to look at the curve to see that this is true. Also, take a reading at various areas of the curve by placing eyedroppers down. Set the info palette to show before and after readings. You will see that for example, the cyan moved a lot further in the midtone than other spots, same being true for other colors. It can even happen that something like the magenta moved 20% in the midtone and not at all in the shadows and only 3% in the quarter tones.
Just another example. But when this happens you are introducing various tonal imbalances all over the place and depending on how much you are opening the mask with your brushing it can turn into a nightmare and even more work when you notice and need to fix. ONe of the benefits of using the supplied blend mode to do your arithmetic is that it is hard to make a mistake. All you need to know is how far to push it with the brush you have chosen to use.

Whether you use two or three or more filled softlight layers is totally dependent on your own workflow and work history. I tend to use one layer for both my lightening and darkening. If I can't push something far enough it usually means one of two things. I need to create another softlight layer, or it was something that I should not have used a softlight layer to begin with.

I will, for simplicity sake, even blend more than one softlight layer together using apply image, or calculations depending on whether it is a color image or a b/w.

For color images I rarely use pure black on a softlight layer. I tend to pick up darker colors from the image. I use pure white a lot but again sometimes it is better to pick up a color that is from the image.

Chris

[keiserjohn]

Hehe.. I see now that i forgot my question. But anyway you gave me a good answer, i was wondering about the difference. Of my workflow, and the softlight layers.

I use softlight layers but on bigger partions of the image, I only use the curve adjustment on wrinkles and pores.

Thanks for the info tough, it helped me understand more about the difference.

[abdul10000]

Originally Posted by cricket1961

Hello Keiser

For color images I rarely use pure black on a softlight layer. I tend to pick up darker colors from the image. I use pure white a lot but again sometimes it is better to pick up a color that is from the image.

Chris

Why is it that you do not use pure black or some times pure white? Is it because pure colors would cause color shifts where as dark and light colors from the picture would maintain the overall colors ratio of the picture?

Thanks in advance